Hi,

I have been working in Germany with green card for more than two years. There are some software that
I developed before coming to Germany. I am told
at Auslaenderamt that if I want to sell the software I need to have "Selbsteandige Erwerbstaetigkeit gestattaet" in my passport. This should, however, be the case if I sell licenses regularly (i.e. if I turn selling this software to a businness).

My question is whether I can sell the source code and entire copyright? For me it is similar to selling ones house or car. Software is my belonging so I should be able to sell it
Does anybody here have an idea or experience on this?

What your Ausländeramt told you is correct.

Whatever you do, and how, if you want to make money from what you have "sold", you must get the permit Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet. I am sure you won't want to sell it just "once". Since it's software, it'll be easy for you to prepare copies and to sell several people.

This doesn't have to do with licenses. In both cases (in both of your paragraphs above) you want to sell something. Selling, means, you have to give receipt to whom you sell something, or you must have a booking work. To give an official receipt, you must have self-employed permission.

Even in Döner kiosks in Germany people give receipt, for what they sell. I am talking about repetitive sales, not once.

The person who buys what you did, will ask you to give a receipt. To organize receipt, you must be registered in Board of Trade (Handelskammer). For that, they will ask you selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think above is correct.

Klenze17.

hi,

just do it easy.

Ask somebody in your native country (of course, someone you can trust, in case you want your money back ;-) ) to handle it as a IT service for the company that you want to sell the SW here. Probably he/she will need to pay the local taxes of your country (you must do the same here in case you were allowed to sell it directly here).

There are many companies doing foreign IT outsourcing, that problably the company knows how to procedure...

Bye,

Alex

Thanks for the answers.

klenze17:
I do want to sell it once. I am giving the entire
copyright,source code etc... so after that point on, I'll not own the software and I can not sell any copies. That's why I thought this is similar to selling, say, a car.I'll not use the car as a taxi, I'll sell my car.

alex:
I also thought of it but then how will I receive the money from the company legally? I mean,
if Finanzamt one day asks where the hell I got that money what can I say? That some auslaendishe company gave it to me as a present without any reason?

"I also thought of it but then how will I receive the money from the company legally?"

Your friend/brother or whoever is doing the business will tranfer the money to you. You aren't involved on it.

" I mean,
if Finanzamt one day asks where the hell I got that money what can I say?"

you say that it is going to happen only one time, so it shouldn't be a problem at all. In case they want to know the reason for a transfer of money from your native country to you (very hard to happen), you might say that that person had one old debt with you (say him to put that in the transfer explanation). That is.

Legally you can't be involved directly in the bussiness.

"That's why I thought this is similar to selling, say, a car.I'll not use the car as a taxi, I'll sell my car."

You are missing totally the point. Freelancing (what you want to do, it doesn't matter if you developed the SW in your home country or yesterday here in DE) is not allowed without EG. Period.

Bye,

Alex

@alex, @klenze17

What happens if TheCode decides to sell it over eBay? Would he still need the permit "Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet"?

"What happens if TheCode decides to sell it over eBay? Would he still need the permit "Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet"?"

well, it's another option, but it is by far risker than my idea.

a company buying custom software by eBay? A software developer selling own (custom) sofware by eBay? if I was Finanzamt...

To put it clear, if he sells his own car, he is selling an asset. If he sells SW developed by him, he is selling a product.

" What happens if TheCode decides to sell it over eBay? Would he still need the permit "Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet"? "


I think selling on ebay is not a problem,even for persons without 'selbständige erwerbstätigkeit gestatted' stamp , as long as it is done as an individual and not as a professional. You are free to sell your own belongings . But selling a self made product may have different implications.

Another point :

Legally ,you are supposed to declare what ever you have sold when submitting taxpaers.

@alex,@krieger

What you guys say about this product in www.ebay.de?

Artikelnummer: 8750101119

@Akshay

I don't get your point. What are you trying to show or say?

Well, what is your point ???

@alex,@krieger

Well, I thought in eBay you could sell "anything" from your own belongings to self made product without requiring "Selbsteandige Erwerbstaetigkeit gestattaet".

Yes, one can sell anything of his belongings , but not as a professional seller.

I do not think one can make a product and then sell it ( Legally )caliming that it is his belonging, without having Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit gestatted stamp.

There may be people who are doing it and whether it is legal or not is another matter.

I think you can sell your software legally in the following way. You need to write (and legalise in your embassy) an authorisation for someone to sell your software in your native country in your name, with the payment proceeding to your bank account. Alternatively you can travel for a short holiday to do the sell.

The actual sale must take place in your native country. However, unless germany has a double taxation agreement with your native country you might have to declare the proceedings from that sale in germany as well.
You would tax it as foreign income.

-a

@Akshay
@alex, @klenze17
What happens if TheCode decides to sell it over eBay? Would he still need the permit "Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet"?

If you read my email, I wrote that I asked him if he wants to sell his "product" once or not. Selling once is something else. At eBay do they sell their things more than once? Do companies like Microsoft sell their product from eBay?

In order that you can sell something more than once, the way from the home-country is a nice trick. But I think its overhead. It's point which one you choose. IMHO the best way is to get Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet and do what you want.

Have a nice weekend,
Klenze17.

Thanks for the answers to all.

@aalvarez
Would be nice if this can do the trick. During one of my regular visits I can do. Also, there is a double taxation agreement so this will not be a problem. I'd like to save the time and effort to be Selbstaendig. It doesn't worth the trouble (as I know it is a long and tedious process for foreigners) because I'll need only once

I have to ask to a lawyer to be sure I guess.