Hello,

I was at KVR to apply for my NE today. He basically rejected my application saying that i need to be living in an apartment(not to be shared) rented on my name. I have been living in my WG since 1 1/2 years and i have the rental contract showing that its a shared accomodation. SO he said i need to rent an apartment and apply for NE again.

Anybody has this kind of exp. or any comments?

Greetings,
vamsi.

Well, I know people down there are quite strange in their requirements but I don't think that's an enough reason for rejecting it. Did he gave you something else instead of a NE?

D.

"Anybody has this kind of exp. or any comments?"

Have better case ;) i applied for NE in Mannheim on 06.12.2005. My application is not processed till now; moreover, immigration office doesn't answer any questions regarding my application.

As for your case - i would say that everything depends on the amount of money you get from your job. If it's sufficient to pay for a hotel room every day, they should give you NE. Otherwise their decision may be correct, because you do not have any rights if you have no Mietvertrag and the landlord of your tenant didn't allow a shared accomodation in written form.

The requirements for a NE state:

§ 9 (4) Als ausreichender Wohnraum wird nicht mehr gefordert, als für die Unterbringung eines Wohnungssuchenden in einer öffentlich geförderten Sozialmietwohnung genügt. Der Wohnraum ist nicht ausreichend, wenn er den auch für Deutsche geltenden Rechtsvorschriften hinsichtlich Beschaffenheit und Belegung nicht genügt. Kinder bis zur Vollendung des zweiten Lebensjahres werden bei der Berechnung des für die Familienunterbringung ausreichenden Wohnraumes nicht mitgezählt.

§ 9 (2) 9. er über ausreichenden Wohnraum für sich und seine mit ihm in häuslicher Gemeinschaft lebenden Familienangehörigen verfügt.

Since you have an Untermietvertrag (and it is as legal as a normal Mietvertrag), you should really have no problems. Contact the Trust7 lawyers and they will sort it out for you.

regards,
-a

"Since you have an Untermietvertrag (and it is as legal as a normal Mietvertrag"

it is legal, but you are going to be thrown out on the street if landlord did not agree with Untermietvetrag and tenant did not pay for the flat - even if you pay accordingly to Untermietvetrag on the regular basis.

That makes all the difference.

The same can happen with a legal mietvertrag... Suppose your landlord fails to provide you with a flat. Or he provides you with one, but lets the roof fall, or the house decays to some condition which technically make it unliveable, which is a precondition of the NE.

As a consequence of this, you don't get the NE. As a result of not getting the NE, you loose your job, or you fail to get a better paid job.

So, in this scenario, since both contracts can end up with you living on the street, even after paying your dues, no one renting would be allowed to get the NE.

I think, the maximum they should ask for, is the written consent of the Landlord along with the Untermietvertrag.

regards,
-a

Suppose your landlord fails to provide you with a flat. Or he provides you with one, but lets the roof fall, or the house decays to some condition which technically make it unliveable, which is a precondition of the NE.

theoretically such thing is possible as well, but it is much more unlikely to happen (in Germany) than the other thing mentioned by me. And it is very likely that landlord can pay for his mistakes and wrongdoings and is not going to change his place of residence in one day, what can not be said about tenant, especially when tenant is a foreigner.

it has to be understood that officials can not check everything, absolutely everything that can happen; they check only the things that are somewhat likely to happen. i know 2 cases when tenant did not pay for rented flat although his Untermieter paid his part, but i do not know any case (in Germany) when landlord didn't provide a flat despite of signed Mietvertrag or has let a roof fall or has provided a flat in a house that is technically unliveable.

Besides it's not very likely that you will sign a Mietvertrag without seeing a flat first. After all it costs you good money and i guess that you do not want to pay those money for nothing. And if it doesn't - for example, monthly rent will cost 1 cent - officials will see that from your Mietvertrag and will not give you NE.

And i would like to point out as well that officials in immigration office tend to know town districts with "decayed" flats and houses. it's probably not a very good idea to apply for NE if you live in such a flat ;)

I think, the maximum they should ask for, is the written consent of the Landlord along with the Untermietvertrag.

I would think they are going to be satisfied if they get that.

"Always borrow money from a pessimist; they don't expect to be paid back."

This is practised widely here against foreigners and guess which behörde/amt is the best implementer of it...

It is like below;

"It is not possible because I want to say no and I try my chance on it"
"I just want to make his life difficult"
"Let's give him hard times"
"May be he will give up and leave the country"
"I have a bad mood today"

Should I tell more ?