Hi,

I have reviewed the law in several places and I cannot determine if the previous exception ( for those in DE prior to 01.01.2005 ) exists for this visa. Does anybody know for sure?

Hi,

Follow the recent link which is a good example

http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/help_needed/ne_withought_60_months_renten_help_needed


Did you mean NE D-EG ?


MATRIX

I am not referring to the case in the link. I am however referring to NE D-EG ( 2003/109/EG ).

I already have Niederlassungserlaubnis ( came to DE prior to January 1, 2005 ) but need to make an additional antrag for for the EG as per:

http://www.agah-hessen.de/Themen/Recht/Aufenthaltsrecht/Daueraufenthalt_EU.htm

In the text of the law ( German Version ) I have seen, I have been unable to find any reference to an excemption of Renten in cases where a person has been in DE since prior to January 1, 2005.

Has anybody found it even necessary to provide any information with your NE D-EG antrag?

@mlovecan

You like things complicated, don't you?

Your Niederlassungserlaubnis is your Daueraufenthalt-EG. You just have to ask them to change the sticker(Aufkleber) in your passport.

@akshay

No, quite the opposite. I don't like it complicated. But I don't have to tell you that sometimes a very simple thing can become a real process in DE.

For example, try telling the beurocrats in DE that you accidentally told them you are Catholic ( when you only had a choice between Catholic and Protestant at registration time ).

If you haven't been to church for 20 years and are not interested in attending Catholic church in DE, just see how many offices you must visit to change that little detail ( not to mention letters in Latin between a German Bishop and one back to your home country ).

@lovecan,

What akshay said is true. You only have to change the sticker.

Just say you dont like to pay the church tax. No on is forcing you to go to the church just becos u have registered as such.

Anyway it is just small mistakes that haunt u for a life time.

I saw that in Düsseldorf ABH one of the specific requirements for NE-EG documents package submission is a proof of 60 months Rentenversicherung payments. Did not see anything similar to exception of this rule for AE holders prior to 01.01.05 and actually did not find a paragraph in that 2003/109/EG justifing the requirement of 60 months payments, may need a closer look in that document.

I got the feeling that if you just worked in Germany there's almost no difference in requirements for a person in order to get NE or NE-EG and it might be even easier to get NE based on that 60 months exception. However, if you studied in Germany, you can include 1/2 of the time you've studied for staying requirements, and, in my understanding, all the time you worked and payed Rentenversicherung during studies for 60 months rule, so if you graduated and found a job you already have some time counted for NE-EG instead of starting from scratch for NE. Since the length of undergraduate studies in Germany is usually close to 5-6 years this time may turn out to be significant. Please correct me if I misunderstood this point.

This link:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32003L0109:EN:NOT


Contains the following:

2. Member States may require the persons concerned to provide evidence that they have:

(a) stable and regular resources which are sufficient to maintain themselves and the members of their families, without recourse to the social assistance of the Member State concerned. For each of the categories referred to in Article 14(2), Member States shall evaluate these resources by reference to their nature and regularity and may take into account the level of minimum wages and pensions;

However, I am more inclined to believe they would just put the sticker in my passport - it is the only thing that would make sense - afterall I am permanant in their country now and limiting my possible of gainful employment within the EU is not really in their best interests.

The exception was contained in the Übergangsregelungen of the Aufenthaltsgesetz § 104 Abs. 2. For the NE EG there is only a draft of the law, and the current view is that it is something new that needs to be requested separately (even if you already have a NE). Probably, many ABHs will simply add the EG, while others will want to run the whole process again. There are some specific semi official guidelines on the process, but as usual each land does more less whatever they want.

To answer the question in short, there are no exceptions yet, as the law has not been passed.

If you are lucky, the ABH will follow the same procedure as for the NE.
If you are unlucky, your application will be received but not processed until the law is passed or the maximum processing time has elapsed, or the checks will be considerably harder.

If you want to see an example of how it will be dealt with in NRW read this document:
http://www.emhosting.de/kunden/fluechtlingsrat-nrw.de/system/upload/download_1042.pdf

regards,
-a