Hi everybody,

I've been reading your forums and links for a few days now. I've been trying to get a little bit of taste on how things are for foreigners in Germany. Some of your comments and discussions give the feeling of DEFINATELY not going there. But on the other hand i guess not eveything is so bad or you guys would not be there. Can anybody tell me how is it to live in Germany and some advices to make a better living as a foreigner???

I'm looking too for some information. I'm married to a German (beutiful) woman and we've been considering moving to Germany lately. Does anybody know what choices i have in terms of visa, work permit and if i i'd have some "help" to get a job or health insurance, etc. I'm an IT professional and i have my own business here but violence and crime in my country are making us consider migration.

Thank you all!!

Hi,

it is not my turn to answer your question, because I am a German, so I can not be objectiv. But I want to tell you just a few sentences: There are many things in Germany which can be improved and at the moment we have big economical problems, but I am sure, we will come back to the top of the leading nations very soon (at least with the help of our Gcs!).

I travel a lot and I have seen many countries, so I ask myself, why so many Germans are unsatisfied and why they are moaning a lot, because we still work many hours less than Us citizens or people from Japan, or UK and on the other hand we have the most paid vacations. Our social system has problems, but it is still one of the best in the world. We have a crime rate, but usually you do not have to fear for your life if you get the idea to take a walk at midnight. Our school system... okay, I will stop here, but one more: In Germany everybody can say what he wants to, even against our polititians, and nobody has to fear for his freedom therefore.

Even our forum is open for critical voices and I myself already postet many critical messages.

So if you get a chance to come, you should do it. I will welcome you and if your ways lead you to Berlin, we could have a beer or a cup of tea together :-)

This is valid for all of you, just give me a call when you visit Berlin.

Good luck!
Detlef

P.S.: After reading so many negative messages in the last weeks, I could not leave to write this. Forgive me ;-

If you are married to a German citizen than your situation is completely different.

Usually you will get a limited permission to stay with a duration of three years from the beginning. After five years it will be possible for you to get an unlimited permission to stay.

Even an unlimited permission to stay does not mean that deportation under certain circumstances is not possible for instance if you come into conflict with law and your sentence exceeds a certain limit.

You will have the equal rights as a German citizen regarding your permission to work.

Sorry to mention that: If your marriage should fail after two years as a lawful permanent resident in Germany your right to remain in Germany will no longer depend upon your marriage with a German citizen.

Unemployment is high. Being a foreigner myself I can asure you that being a foreigner is always more difficult than being at home.

German language is essential if you want to work. Think about the possibility to be without a job for a longer periode. Your wife will have to earn the money at the beginning. Can you cope with this situation of beiing the houseman? Can your wife cope with this situation?

As long as you are married to a German citizen you will be not a normal foreigner.

As a normal foreigner you should never receive social aid (Sozialhilfe) for a longer period of time.

What you hear in this forum is nonetheless reality for those who are normal foreigners. Their desperation is true.

Here you will find a lot of information regarding the Ausländergesetz which is still in power at the moment:

http://www.info4alien.de.

Gesetz über die Einreise und den Aufenthalt von Ausländern im Bundesgebiet (Ausländergesetz - AuslG)
Vom 9. Juli 1990 (BGBl. I S. 1354) zuletzt geändert durch Gesetz vom 09.01.2002 (BGBl. I S. 361 - Terrorismusbekämpfungsgesetz)

§ 23 Ausländische Familienangehörige Deutscher
(1) Die Aufenthaltserlaubnis ist nach Maßgabe des § 17 Abs. 1

1. dem ausländischen Ehegatten eines Deutschen,
2. dem ausländischen minderjährigen ledigen Kind eines Deutschen,
3. dem ausländischen Elternteil eines minderjährigen ledigen Deutschen zur Ausübung der Personensorge

zu erteilen, wenn der Deutsche seinen gewöhnlichen Aufenthalt im Bundesgebiet hat; sie kann nach Maßgabe des § 17 Abs. 1 auch dem nicht-sorgeberechtigten Elternteil eines minderjährigen ledigen Deutschen erteilt werden, wenn die familiäre Gemeinschaft schon im Bundesgebiet gelebt wird.

(2) Die Aufenthaltserlaubnis wird in der Regel für drei Jahre erteilt. Sie wird befristet verlängert, solange die familiäre Lebensgemeinschaft mit dem Deutschen im Bundesgebiet fortbesteht und die Voraussetzungen für die unbefristete Verlängerung noch nicht vorliegen.

(3) § 17 Abs. 5 und die §§ 19 und 21 finden entsprechende Anwendung; an die Stelle der Aufenthaltsgenehmigung des Ausländers tritt der gewöhnliche Aufenthalt des Deutschen im Bundesgebiet.

(4) Auf sonstige Familienangehörige findet § 22 entsprechende Anwendung.

lol not much to add to what detlef and cardholder said! i only can tell that if you are married on a german citizen you definitely should come here, because Germany from my point of view is preferrable over other countries like U.S. as an immigration purpose, but only IF you have the same rights with german citizens. as you are married to a german citizen, you do have the same rights with german citizens (excluding possibility to elect politicians, but who really cares about that?) unless you are a criminal, the whole system works for you not against you and therefore you should have absolutely no problems here ;)

First, thank you all for your comments,

Detlef:
Thank you for that invitation, i'm strongly considering to accept it. You know, my wife has exactly the same opinion as you about many unsatisfied Germans. I guess it's just because they have never experienced or get to really know some other countries situations, on the other hand though, it's always valid to try to expect for more.

Cardholder:
You know i actually thought it was going to be something like that. At the beginning i'll get to be the houseman. I'm actually ok with that especially because i haven't been able to spent so much time with my son (2 and a half year old) and i'd really love to do it.
I'm going to have my wife translating what you sent me. But maybe somebody can tell me a little bit about this one concern:
I'm going to need to learn the language and probably during that time i'm not going to be able to get a job. What i've heard is that you can not really spent a long period without working. Does that mean i'm probably have to get a job like it or not???. Don't get me wrong, i'm not afraid of working but i guess all of us would want to work on our own areas, right?

Trusday:
Yeah, you're right!! i'd like to vote but i would not know who to vote for anyway!!

One final question for all of you if you alow me:
Putting aside GC, visa, permits, etc.
WOULD YOU SAY GERMANY IS A NICE PLACE TO LIVE?????

Thanks again,
Hector

Hi Hector,

Yes Germany is good place to live and also beautiful country(not only German Girls!)..

Cheers,
VSK

Hi Hector,

I am not a German, but I can tell you that Germany is a great country to live in... I am here since 3 years and I am in love with the country... Thats why I am behind the Permanant Residency to make Germany my home.
zash

I have lived in four countries up to now (my home country, Germany, Hungary and Canada) and spent some time (business) in couple of others (US, Holland). Apart of my home country, Germany is deifinitely my first choice. Understanding and speaking the local language is the most important thing. Accepting and adopting the local attitude comes right after that. You can always try. I would even recomend that - like I did it with Canada. Now I at least know I dont like there. And it is never to late to change your mind. One can get easily confused with to many different opinions. You got to try it and you have all you need to do so.

very good resource about the country and its people below;

"Culture Shock! Germany (Culture Shock! Country Guides)"
by Richard Lord
Paperback: 311 pages
Publisher: Graphic Arts Center Publishing Company;
ISBN: 1558687564

@Hectoravila

Q: I'm going to need to learn the language and probably during that time i'm not going to be able to get a job.

A: That is correct.

Q: What i've heard is that you can not really spent a long period without working.

A: Do you know any country where you can live a long period of time without working?

Q: Does that mean i'm probably have to get a job like it or not???. Don't get me wrong, i'm not afraid of working but i guess all of us would want to work on our own areas, right?

A: Chances are that you will for many many years not able to work what you are doing now, finally if you are out of your profession for many years maybe forever.

@Hectoravila

Did you ever think that it could happen to you that you are humiliated because of being a foreigner having the wrong colour?

Did you ever think that it could happen to you that native people could tell you that you do not belong in their country?

Are you strong enough not to become disappointed by that?

Yes of course Germany is beautifull but the sun and the sky, the water and the mountain are beautifull elsewhere too.

We all breath the same air but as a foreigner you will experience that you are not equal.

Are you strong enough to cope with this kind of frustration?

And one more thing: Do not go to East Germany if you do not have to. You might get hurt.

Thank you all for your comments!!

"We all breath the same air but as a foreigner you will experience that you are not equal."

I've been living in a few countries already and i can tell you that happens everywhere. Even in my own country i might as well find my self in such position.

The question here is, HOW BAD IS IT????

I got retrofeed from several people now and all of them say they know there's only a small percentage of people doing it.
Even in another forum here, there was people saying it ain't that bad.

This is the first time i hear someone that actually warns me like that about it. Is it that bad?

Hector.

Hi all,

I decided to write some of my points of view after reading such a horrifying accusse of foreigners due to his/her personal experiences toward a nation.

Cardholder! Please do not accusse that east of Germany is such a bad place for foreigners as I can tell you it is not. End of July will be my forth years in Dresden, and I can tell you that I cant wait for my fith year to due (not because I want to go back, but because it is the year where I could try to get PR).

To feel as foreigner is all personal feeling due to experiences, propaganda from others.

I have never be humiliated nor neither do I think that I am having "wrong colour" in Germany.

I have never been told that I am not belong to Germany (although I did once ask a Skinhead of direction - and amazingly he told me the direction :-)). If 1 person told that you a "Black sheep" do not be dissapointed, it does not mean the rest of Germans have the same ideology :-)

hectoravila, first year is always hard. I believe you can cope it well if you try to see the big picture, try to experience and decides for your own.

Bye
still in Dresden.
sengkiang

My child goes to school.

When the new school year started parents and the class teacher met the first time.

One father said: "We can be lucky that in this class there are no foreigners."

One foreigner in the class who was also present at this meeting he did not recognize in that moment because he is white.

All other parents said nothing like this. But also nothing for the foreigners.

Foreigners are always incriminated.

"(although I did once ask a Skinhead of direction - and amazingly he told me the direction )."

Always remember: he was alone.

Stupidity and luck are sometimes very close.

I saw on TV a coverage called "NPD auf dem Vormarsch - wie Rechtsextreme in Kommunen Wahlerfolge erzielen".

Wir treffen zwei Familien, denen die hohen NPD-Wahlergebnisse Angst machen. Here Salimo kam vor 23 Jahren aus Mosambique nach Sachsen. Er heiratete eine Deutsche. Ihre dunkelhäutigen Kinder werden beschimpft - das ist schon lange Alltag.

Mutter:
"Es ist uns schon in der Vergangenheit passiert, dass also Leute uns auf der Straße gesagt haben: 'Die sollte man vergasen.'. Unseren Kindern wurde gesagt 'He, Heydrich, hol Deine Kohlen rein'. Also Heydrich, der KZ-Mensch. Also, unsere dunkelhäutigen Kinder sind die Kohlen, die verheizt werden."

You can read and watch the video of the entire coverage under http://www.kontraste.de vom 8. Juli 2004.

My wife is from Indonesia and she would never go to East Germany to live there.

Die Fähigkeit, demokratisch über ein kontroverses Thema diskutieren zu können, ist wichtig.

Meinungen, die von der eigenen Meinung abweichen, ertragen zu können, ist wichtig.

Wir sollten nicht über das Löschen aufrichtiger Beiträge nachdenken als vielmehr über die Qualität unserer Diskussionskultur.

Hello friend,

I am here in Munster-Germany since from march 2012 and its hard to find any indians. Mostly i can see all tamil or srilankan people. Its not that i am racist or all those conventional things..... But my experience during the last few months shows that its so complicated without langauge here..... Secondly its not like india where one can get information quick...things are a little slow here i feel and most people (germans) who i came in contact where not aware of so many procedural rules of their own country germany...... For simple thing like opening a bank account or about simple first hand medicines nobody could advice..... Even finding a lawyer was difficult...like if i ask a local munsterite, he or she cannot advice who could be better.... Its not like india where locals have information about so many things.... Here on this forum i cannot tell in detail what experiences i had ....but my general observation is that people cannot easily advice on anything ...they think and think ............and then still nothing is for sure.....

Thats the reason i wanted to know how indians could live here and manage their day to day affairs..... Its not that i want to criticise germany....but it could be that its too early for me to comment on anything...but thats what i felt right now.... Please advice me if i am wrong...may be i am wrong and every one is not the same in germany.....

Would appreciate to know about life in germany and munster in particular...

regards to all

Hello friend,

I am here in Munster-Germany since from march 2012 and its hard to find any indians. Mostly i can see all tamil or srilankan people. Its not that i am racist or all those conventional things..... But my experience during the last few months shows that its so complicated without langauge here..... Secondly its not like india where one can get information quick...things are a little slow here i feel and most people (germans) who i came in contact where not aware of so many procedural rules of their own country germany...... For simple thing like opening a bank account or about simple first hand medicines nobody could advice..... Even finding a lawyer was difficult...like if i ask a local munsterite, he or she cannot advice who could be better.... Its not like india where locals have information about so many things.... Here on this forum i cannot tell in detail what experiences i had ....but my general observation is that people cannot easily advice on anything ...they think and think ............and then still nothing is for sure.....

Thats the reason i wanted to know how indians could live here and manage their day to day affairs..... Its not that i want to criticise germany....but it could be that its too early for me to comment on anything...but thats what i felt right now.... Please advice me if i am wrong...may be i am wrong and every one is not the same in germany.....

Would appreciate to know about life in germany and munster in particular...

regards to all

Hello friend,

I am here in Munster-Germany since from march 2012 and its hard to find any indians. Mostly i can see all tamil or srilankan people. Its not that i am racist or all those conventional things..... But my experience during the last few months shows that its so complicated without langauge here..... Secondly its not like india where one can get information quick...things are a little slow here i feel and most people (germans) who i came in contact where not aware of so many procedural rules of their own country germany...... For simple thing like opening a bank account or about simple first hand medicines nobody could advice..... Even finding a lawyer was difficult...like if i ask a local munsterite, he or she cannot advice who could be better.... Its not like india where locals have information about so many things.... Here on this forum i cannot tell in detail what experiences i had ....but my general observation is that people cannot easily advice on anything ...they think and think ............and then still nothing is for sure.....

Thats the reason i wanted to know how indians could live here and manage their day to day affairs..... Its not that i want to criticise germany....but it could be that its too early for me to comment on anything...but thats what i felt right now.... Please advice me if i am wrong...may be i am wrong and every one is not the same in germany.....

Would appreciate to know about life in germany and munster in particular...

regards to all