Today the Vermittlungsausschuss discusses the Immigration Law:

http://www.n-tv.de/5197884.html

and

http://www.trust7.com/living_in_germany/news

It does not look very good, but this part is important for you:

"Unstreitig ist nur die Anwerbung von hoch Qualifizierten."

Have a nice weekend
Detlef

Hi again,

regarding my message, I got a reply, which I want you to know:
Hello Detlef,

I guess you are right. But that time someone from Spiegel contacted me and did an interview and was never published. If I would let someone know my frustrations then it is to bring up some results. If it doesn't bring any results, I guess it's just waste of time. Anyway I will write him a mail.

Thanks
F....

Here is my answer:
Hi F....,

I can understand you. But the media business is very special, you can never be sure if an article will be published. Maybe at the time of publishing there is an earthquake somewhere in the world or a famous person comes out with some news and the article is cancelled. It is never the journalist who is guilty, because he also wants his work to be seen, but maybe the chief editor does not like it.

Anyway, we have to try it again and again, because the media are the strongest partner in our fight for GCs rights!

Imagine my situation, I ask the GCs again and again, I send mails, I call people and at least, I do not have any influence if an article will be published or not. But I do not give up and therefore I thank you, that you also do not give up!

Best regards
Detlef

Yeah, that should be the spirit.. Thankx a lot Detlef.. It also happens to me. I have written like more than 10 times in BBC. My motivation was to see my name and make others listen to my view. But i was never given a chance on BBC. I stopped wasting my time.. But here the situation is little different. The efforts are to make concerns felt by the politicians and the people. This is not a fancy of one person. Its a genuine need of thousands of GCs who are really contributing to the economy of Germany.

In short, lets not loose our heart at small setbacks..
Cheers,
Cmreddy

It would be excellent if some of the Interviews that never made it to the light would be published here.

Geschickt. Hey Leute, weist jemand das CDU/CSU-Mitglied, das für die Gespräche zum Thema Zuwanderungsgesetz verantwortlich sein?

Dear Mr. Jürgen Dahlkamp,

From the trust7.com resource I have learned that you are interested in questions which arise around immigration law and would like to get opinions of foreigners which already live here in Germany, especially in the boundaries of so-called green card program. As I am a German green card holder from March 2001, I thought that I would be a good idea to inform you about my opinion and my thoughts considering immigration law.

As you may know, till year 2000 Germany had a one good rule when inviting foreigners from third countries: a foreigner was invited when it was obvious that he would work and that his work in all aspects would only benefit Germany; also he had to leave Germany when because of changes on the market he would become of no more benefit for Germany. This rule worked fine and many foreigners have come to Germany, enjoyed their stay and job here and with time received an unlimited residence permit or German citizenship and thus became the rightful and respected members of German community.

However, in the year 2000 SPD with Mr. Schröder took it for granted that foreigners symbolize a future of Germany and therefore have launched a green card program, which did not require any checks of the labour market and any analysis of possible benefit regarding the applicants. As an argument it was said that each applicant creates three more working places and therefore such a program would only help to reduce an unemployment rate among natives. Considering that many of invited foreigners are now unemployed, I would say that such point of view has shown its complete truthfulness: as it is known, each unemployed green card holder has a right for unemployment benefit and therefore creates working places for new officials which are needed in order to be able to process his application for such a benefit, subsequent appeal and sometimes a claim when foreigner does not fully understand a German law system. Needless to say, that appeals and claims provide even more job opportunities for natives, which should be thankful to their government for it as well as for paying all expenses (as it is well known, normally income of unemployed lies below the limit and therefore father State takes on its shoulders all expenses for such appeals and claims). Moreover, such foreigners also produce new work opportunities for officials and private agents who work in area of employment services: they strive to make their best in order to see that a foreigner gets a new job position and normally succeed in their efforts – sometimes after ten months of hard work. Also foreigners need to spend their unemployment benefit and that creates new work places for natives as well. But the role of foreigners in creation of new work places does not end even here: with 10% unemployment rate among native IT-professionals they compete with natives for new and existing work places, which results in additional job for human resources departments as well as for employment offices that need to make all abovementioned tasks for unemployed natives - job which normally would not be necessary in case when green card holders never came to Germany.

Considering everything abovementioned, it is needless to say that green card program resulted in total success and made miracles with unemployment rate in Germany: now even more job places are created – for people, who make their best to fight an unemployment and of course, want to get their salaries for their work in such direction. So it is obvious that Germany urgently needs a new immigration law which will allow many more foreigners to come, create even more work places and stimulate even bigger fight vs. unemployment. It is also necessary to improve a situation and give new foreigners an unlimited residence permit at once – then they will be able to participate in the process of creation of new work places much longer than 5 years and also will be able to transfer their experiences in such a process to younger people when receiving an earned pension from father State, thus securing a future of Germany.

It is needless to say that during their life here green card holders have become to love Germany which provides them with everything when they are in need and of course do not want to come back to their home countries where they need to work hard in order to get their bread. However, with unaccepted immigration law their future here is unsecured with expiration of 5-years-period and this makes them somewhat frustrated: nobody wants to go back to the country where people must work 10-12 hours per day in order to get just necessaries for living and where no unemployment benefit is paid whatsoever. The situation with limited residence permit also does not satisfy them very much because they would like to get a right for a social aid after they are no more eligible for getting an unemployment benefit – which is going to become possible just after new immigration law comes in force. Needless to say that it will improve their life when they have an unemployed wife and children – and they of course have deserved a right for a social aid considering how hard they fought for creation of new work places. And such a right will shape a future of Germany even more, because natives will have to work more and more in order to make such a paradise possible.

In conclusion, I would like to state that it is not even necessary for new-coming foreigners to learn German – the natives so wonderfully know English that it makes all efforts towards learning German completely needless. This is not my point of view – it was proclaimed by SPD with Mr. Schröder when they invited people in Germany who did not know even one German word – but I of course fully understand rightfulness of such an attitude and therefore write my letter to you in English.

Best wishes from Mannheim,

Ruslan Fursa

BDI: Zuwanderungsgesetz jetzt!

http://www.n24.de/politik/inland/?a2004031209363414894

Hi !

Knows someone, how looks the Immigration law now,
after these negociations ? Do you know any link with
the present state of the law ?

Dear GC holders & all,
As of today (Friday, 12 March) the different political factions, union involved in the discussion of immigration law still could not come to a compromise or a solution. They would meet again on March 21st for a preliminary discussion and may reach a conclusion by March end at the earliest.
Yet another agonizing wait for GC holders. The chances as stated by politicians are 50/50.

"As of today (Friday, 12 March) the different political factions, union involved in the discussion of immigration law still could not come to a compromise or a solution. They would meet again on March 21st for a preliminary discussion and may reach a conclusion by March end at the earliest.
Yet another agonizing wait for GC holders. The chances as stated by politicians are 50/50."

For GC holders it does not matter whether compromise solution is found or not. it is interesting only for newcomers, who may be able to get an unlimited residence permit at once after all checks on the labour market are done and they are allowed in the country; or may get a limited residence permit for three years which will be prolonged in case when they still have a job - depending on which point of view wins, i guess it will be Union's point of view. But as far as i understand the game here - in any case the extensive labour market check will be required before a foreigner is allowed to get a residence permit accordingly to an immigration law. Considering current situation on the labour market, i would say that GC holders will never pass that check, unless they have some rare specialization ;)

There is an article in yesterday's "Der Spiegel", pp. 46-48, named "Out of Germany" - yeah right, english title. I understood it as a hint: GCs did not learn German -> out of Germany *lol*!

Considering trust7.com, following was said:

"Geschrieben wird stattdessen im Computerforum des Berliners Detlef von Hellfeld, der eine Website für frustrierte (!! so that's a right word for GC holders? :o) Green-Cardler betreibt. "Das sind hochbegabte Leute, deren Kinder hier geboren sind, die Deutsch gelernt haben. Die fehlende Sicherheit, wie es weitergeht, ist ihr brennendstes Thema." Seit zwei Wochen hat Hellfeld (!! note: not Detlef von Hellfeld, but Hellfeld - thinks what needs to be done? let's read farther) auf seiner Webseite eine neue Rubrik: "Getting out of Germany" (!! in English, yeah right!)"

Detlef said that GCs have learned German language? look what "Der Spiegel" writes:

"Und sein Landsmann Srikanth Vakalapudi, 31, Baden-Baden, fragt auf Englisch (!! of course he knows German, but prefers English *lol* ) : "Warum sollen wir Deutsch lernen, wenn wir bald wieder gehen müssen?" (!! must i explain what germans will think about GCs when they read this phrase *lol*? ;) even americans come in Germany and start from learning German, even if they come only for one year - they know that it can get handy in their business afterwards, and where can you learn German better than in Germany itself? and germans understand - oh yes, american guy is not lazy, he wants to work and can care for himself *lol* ;))"

"Von Harianto Wijaya wird in dem Land, das so stolz auf ihn ist, dass es ihm eine Vitrine gebaut hat, bald nichts mehr zu sehen sein. Nichts außer einem schmuddelgrauen Dokument, sorgfältig hinter Glass verwahrt. Es ist das Original seiner Green Card, das im Haus der Geschichte vorgezeigt wird."

very right words, and very clear hint. the time will pass, and nothing will be left from german green card: no people, no rumors. only one dusty document in some museum ... will other ideas from Mr. Schröder leave even one document behind? i wonder ...

hi there,

things are really unclear.

So does that mean that People on Green Card should get ready topack their bags to get back.
If that is the case, it would be at least really nice if the Bundes Govt lets the GC's know that well in advance so that we could give good notices to out appartments and ger rid off all the things and go home soon and avoid some costs.

It would be really great because they would find appropriate Europeans and we would find some jobs back home so that everything is " Alles Klar " and there are no Confusions.

Supo

I do not understand you guys.

Are we talking about new immigration law which goal is to allow foreigners to come here ???

How somebody of you can conclude that we "green card" guys will be thrown out of Germany with this new law ? Where you read about someting like this ???

You are just to black. At a moment when we came here we were aware of 5 years limit so we can not complain about anything with this.

I do not want to say that I am happy with this limitation but at least I still believe that new immigration law will be good for us. Reasons are simple :

- Germany wants to opent borders (with certain conditions)
- We are in Germany
- Most of us have job
- We paid everything that we had to pay
- Most of us have some level of German language

Now think about your words that they will order us to leave and then open borders for some other guys without German experiece, maybe without job and maybe with smaller knowledge of language then we have.

Is this normal to you ?

This doesn't make any sense to me.

Concerning that new entry visa and PR with limitation of 2-3 years (similar like for US green card program). We are here between 0 and 3.5 years so where is a problem just to switch our permits later to unlimited permit ?

I suggest that you just wait and see. Of course, show some good faith ;)

Dracus

well said dracus!
yes that should be the atitude. Guys dont think negative.
I am pretty sure, we would get a favourable outcome of the immigration law.
GnR

I agree with Dracus.

For a while I was reading quite frequently this forum. The idea of sharing experiences, knowledge and making good contacts – that sometimes could become a friendship – is great. Nowadays I try to avoid coming here. I think it’s not helping much.

What is the good of messages of total hopelessness, every time the decision is postponed? This slow way of making laws is not only for us, Green Card holders. It is inherent of the German politics, part of the history of this country.

Obviously every one of us wants a better chance to continue here after the infamous five years. Every one wants to have a good perspective of the future. I just believe that there are better ways help with this.

Not all is that bad, and I still believe that we will have what we are looking for.

Hi All,

I agree with you all that we should Think Positive.

But at the same time Prepare for the worst.
Germany is Known for its Conservative nature but at the same time they know what the impacts could be on them.

Just imagine the Situation in Spain.If i were Spanish, i would Expel all the guys who have a bad record or if at least a doubt raises on his/her record.

Any ways , as said by most of you, lets all b positive and think Positive.

I am sure that there is nothing that will happen to already existing GC's, there should be some law somewhere that mentions this and this is not there in Zuwanderunggesetz Scope.

Any ways What ever it is lots of companys future also depends on the decision.IT's all up to the Govt to decide what goes on in future.

Sudeep

duh....what has green card thing got to do with the situation in Spain??? and what exactly do you mean by expelling those on whom you have just a mere doubt????? Just stay to the point..

How much positive can you be... I guess we can remain positive for the next six months. Then those of us who are aleady for four years will have to find options and prepare to move. But the uncertainty does force one to think about options and I guess one should.

Hi ,

GC's havent got anything with the Spain blasts.

Zuwanderunggesetz has got.

Check the link below, which mentions the Discussions that are ongoing abt the Policy.

http://translate.google.com/translate?
u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aufenthaltstitel.de%2Fzuwg%
2F&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

[ I use this link because this translated the related stuff in English, my German is not that good and so i use this.]


Yea, like SUN said , we can be optimistic and Positive but how long. When asked "So what are you upto and what are your plans in the coming years ?", i really do not have an answer.

You might say you came here on your own accord, yeah true.. Let me know well in advance if there is no path after 5 years and i bet i will go as soon as i find a job back home. This is what concerns me more. I am not frustrated, but i want to know how things look like in future.Am sure that there are lotz of us who are on my kind of boat.

The worst i can say is this is not my Cup of Tea, and i will go back, But we all need to know that in advance , that is what is the fact i am behind.

Cheers..

Hi

For me It's not good to talk about personal opinions here “ Like if I am a Spanish”, No body is sure about their status when they came to Germany after five years, we all knew that Germany offered green card for only five years before coming here. We also aware that the Economy/social situation in Germany changed drastically after green card policy, one should not forget the concerns from respective political parties. No party says that they don’t want Law at all; obviously in such emotional issues all “parties” want to get benefit out of everything. I agree with friend Detlef that we have to think how to bring up the issue and visible to politicians, so that we all have better situation. No point in floating mails like we have to be ready for pack up, I guess every one knows how to survive with his own life and this is not going to be the end. If some members think they can find a job and have better situation in their home country just go a head, I trust TRUST7 is a good platform for bring up issues, sharing experiences of GC’s and helping each other, not for giving personal negative thoughts.

Be positive and be friendly.

With BR

Hi Here is some news from....DW....

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1430_A_1149194_1_A,00.html

http://de.news.yahoo.com/040323/12/3ybow.html
http://de.news.yahoo.com/040323/336/3yan8.html

According to yahoo news, the immigration commission will discuss concerns about national security and integration today.

Let's see the next step at the end of the day,
Regards.

Hi YO,

are you kidding? how can a country accept an immigrant who cannot speak their langauge? and how are you going to live without that? for me I need my whole life to learn German because if you want to defend yourself in this country you need to understand their langauge almost completely because of the rules they have. But I feel better with English and it is easy to understand especially the legal terms and I feel I will have much better career where English is official language. So have your options opened? German is not an easy language to learn! just check out those legal words in German .. hooooh it is painful really! even dictionaries won't be helpful I guess :-((

bye,
Nitin

Don't sure you will get kicked out but for sure, if I were a decisionner and some1 who doesn't speak the language of my country after 5 years and wants to get a PR saying he is well integrated... I'm gonna kick him out for sure because I think language is one of the most important parts of integration.

D.

Yes, tomorrow is THE DAY.

As I understood they will try to come the a conclusion.
German language knowledge is one of the conditions. I think this is normal.

The biggest problem as usual will be the security issue. I understand that as well, but I hope this will not cause other delays...

Regards,
mac

I am providing you a link that contains the response (http://german-green-card.org/ITFachleute.pdf) from “Bundesministerium fur Witschaft und Arbeit” to a group of Green Card holders who raised their concerns (as published at http://german-green-card.org ) about the 5-year limit of the program and requested some clarification from the government authorities.If the employer does not cancel the
contract there is no reason for the Auslaenderbehoerde not to extend the
visa!
I just want to share this information with you guys and I dont know how much it is true, any info or comments from you?

At least, this paper is surely of great interest (even if not really official, meaning, not to be taken as a law) for people struggling to find job because of potential employers being relectant to get people who don't have much time left on their GC.
You could bring this paper on job interviews if you feel the interviewer will worry about your time left.
On all the interviews I had when being unemployed, 75% of them failed because of that and this could be of help.
I will keep it somewhere on a place hidden to be popped up in times needed.

D.

Hello
Those germand-green-card.org news are actually "Schnee von Gestern". it was mentioned here before:

http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/visa_questions/permanent_visa/re_permanent_visa_more_than_5_years_letter

The followers of this forum already well aware that there will be a high chance after 5 years to stay longer
if one has a job at that time BUT this will be case to case basis and there will be no guraantee.

SO what happens if you work 4 years and get unemployed then will you tell your potential new employer that
maybe your residence permit will be extended, if he/she employs you. Who wants to employ someone whose long-term
residence status seems uncertain.

Actually what we need is a clear statement or a "Verordnung" in the (GC) law saying that GC Holders are entitled
to stay longer/get PR after 5 years.(Current aliens law give PR after 5 years anyway..)

If we can not get this clear statement then rest is just story and no solid evidence.

Regards

Lacrima

Its interesting to see that people here are still hopeful on immigration law when even politicions have stopped discussing it.

Buddies, I see nothing in the near future. mr chancellor had only one main point to support his agenda of green card í.e diminishing population but now as EU's strength has grown from 70 millions to 500 millions overnight then he lost even that point.

What I see is that they will not be so rude to throw us out immideately but they will keep extending our visa just like a normal work permit for some time. It will be a filteration process for the people who keeps losing jobs.

So folks I think we should not waste anymore time on it. Right now no one is interested the green color.

Hi uttam

I dont give a s**t to the immigration law.. I will get my PR after 4 years
anyway, in case I am still in Germany ofcourse.. :-)
(Because of the mutual aggreements between my home country and Germany)

I just tried to answer the questions in the thread.

There is another point here.. your arguments are not really true. EU's extension
does not really mean that immigration is not an interesting topic for Germany/EU
anymore.

See this article regarding demographic picture of new EU(including new members) :
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/zuwg/0304.html

Although stubborn right wing German politicians do not tend to accept, Germany
was , is and will be an immigration country. They can postpone the decision
for immigration law and make their voters happy but they will have to face the
reality today or tomorrow !


Regards

Lacrima

Hello Lacrima,

You may be right on the politics going on here over green card.

Also it is a good news that u will get a PR here.
But just for info my message was not targetting you or anyone else.

Hi Lacrima,

what do you mean with getting the PR after 4 years?
Are you a EU citizen, from the new EU countries?

Otherwise, which are the mutual aggreements between your home country and Germany?

Thanks,

mac

mac,

Please see this thread, if you are interested in details
of the mutual aggreement that I have mentioned there. (it is not completely in English but I guess enough to understand what I mean)

http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/gcs_in_your_neighborhood/trk_gcli_varmi_suche_trkische_gcler_looking_for_turkish_gc_holders

Regards

Lacrima

lacrima,

I didn't knew that you are a Turkish Citizen.
You guys have other rights here...good for you...

mac