Looks like Bush wins.
140 000 votes more for Bush in Ohio is big advantage.
Is it good or bad if he wins?

What do you think? Next 4 years of terrorist attacks and high oil prices.

Did you saw Fahrenheit?

Yes. Funny and sad at the same time.

>Is it good or bad if he wins?

Probably Kerry has better foreign policies than what Bush is having at the moment. His winning means more fear for countries who hate Bush **lol*** check bush's IQ then you know how the heck it will in the next 4 years

Do you know how to say that someone is butcher but politely?
This way:
"Probably Kerry has better foreign policies than what Bush is having at the moment."

About Bush IQ, don't be funny.
Idiot can not get 400 mil $ for campaign.
Idiot can not fool half USA.
Idiot can not earn that much money with his
oil and war industry companies.

He is not stupid at all.
Maybe he just wants to look stupid.

Hello,

i don't like bush, but i also don't like kerry.
i believe bush is more suitable for that position.
reasons:
1. if you think that because of bush, the terror comes. you are wrong. you know the camp like in afganistan or al kaeda etc was there before bush came. it is just a matter of time when it explodes. bush could be as trigger, but at least he showed that
there must be something to be solved.
2. these terrors like car bombing are s**t. they told us they did it for islam. they killed also civilians like in iraq, indonesia etc. islam did not tell you to kill civillians or to kill at all.
3. you cannot just ignore them. you have to fight against them.
4. i don't see that in kerry.

"you cannot just ignore them. you have to fight against them."

ahhh.. this will just make the problem bigger.. do you think that they will give up, if you fight against them ?

The big question is why those people do such terroristic attacks ?
Do you think just because of Islam ? NO.. they live in poverty, they are uneducated.. and they are naiv/poor/uneducated people who are ready to believe some religion bullshit.. that is the reason.. if you dont solve this basic problem(poverty, education) in those countries where terror originates.. then there will be always terror.. whatever you do.. as easy as that..

Lacrima

Hello Lacrima,

if it is because of poverty, uneducated etc, why do they not tell their leader about it. The people is living under poverty, what about the leader. They are taking bath with money.
See saudi arabia, see afganistan, see iraq. They are all rich countries. what did the leaders do for the people.
almost nothing. Now they want to scare other people, it is not fair...

Who told you Afganistan is rich?

So you want to fight them.
There where 19 known terorists in Twins atack.
16 are Saudis. So why do they fight in Afg and in Iraq then.

DO NOT BE FUNNY.
Bush doesn't fight to get rid of terror.
He went to Iraq just to make businness stealing oil.
Same as his father in Kuwait.

"See saudi arabia, see afganistan, see iraq. They are all rich countries. what did the leaders do for the people. "

Ahh.. come on.. do you expect something good from the leaders of those countries.. they are just dictators.. and these dictatorships were protected by western countries till today (in Saudi Arabia, it is still protected ) because of the oil interest.. western countries thought (till today) it was a good idea to keep those regions poor/uneducated with cooperative dictators.. so that they can supply oil to them.. the people living in those regions were just not important for them.. if they really believe in Democracy/Freedom and stuff, why dont they change the regime also in Saudi-Arabia ?
ahhh.. come on.. it is not as easy as you describe.. there are tons of things going on behind the scenes.. and then they come up and blame the terrosism.. ahh.. come on.. I am asking you again.. "Why do those people do such terroristical attacks ?" why ?
people living in those countries are not mature enough to understand what is going on really in their country/world.. If their leaders are not defending their interest.. they dont know how to organize themselves.. and bring up a new leader or smt like that.. all of the politics in those countries are also partly controlled by western countries.. if dictator does not touch the interest of the western country.. then they are fine with him.. (they dont give a ..hit to the people living there).. if dictator is doing smt against their interest.. oh.. then they have to bring freedom/democracy to the people living there..(in reality, they just still want to defend their interests..)
oh man.. it is not that easy as it seems.. i wish it was.. but it is not.. :-)

Lacrima

"you cannot just ignore them. you have to fight against them."

How do you mean fight, and who are them?
Why do you think after fight is over, it will be different?
Do you think after fight they will just start to think like you?
Maybe you'll teach them what freedom is?
Maybe it is when they listen to you what should they think and do?
Or maybe you want to fight them till they all drop dead?

I can really hardly see how could fight help.

I think its good that bush was elected. I see him as a strong man. Kerry could not have stood against terrorism. Bush has done a lot and he is not yet finished. I think that US residents should fully support Bush and see him as their leader.

I don't understand one point. Why is it so, that problems are there in islamic countries and why is it so that these countries are known to be poor or having uneducated people. Why? Though there are people in islamic countries who are educated and open minded. But they are very less.

In india also there is too much poverty. I think in china also. Poland also. There may be many more where poverty is quite high. But why only islamic countries create problems. Why don't they develop. Turkey is a good example of developed and open minded people but then they are hated by other muslims.

May be I am not aware fully and this is not the right question I have in my mind. But It would be interesting know what others have to say on this.

Its just a friendly question that I have asked. While this is what I have analysed.

I have many muslim friends and they are very good.

"Turkey is a good example of developed and open minded people"

Thank you GM, I feel honored.. :-)

You are asking a very good question and here is the answer to your question from my point of view:

Because all Islamic countries(except Turkey) didnt live a Renaissance(followed by Kant's Enlightenment) like the old-good Europe did.. Islamic countries did not have (yet) a Martin Luther who can criticise the religion.(again except Turkey, Turkey had a Revolution in 1920 which was based on Kant's Enlightenment and that makes it also unique in islamic world with its secular government structure..)

so you can just see a bad copy of Europe's middle ages when you now look at the Islamic Countries.. this does not make those people living there guilty.. they just need time (Europe needed hundrends of years to free itself from fundamantalistic christanism)
It is not possible to change the situation from today to tomorrow in Islamic countries.. it is just matter of time (people need to be educated.. they need to be "enlightened".. maybe this needs 2-3 generations.. )
But I personally believe that Islamic countries will pass through a phase like the Europe did centuries ago.. what we can do at the moment is, we can help those countries to speed up their process to reach their Renaissance.. surely, this will not be achieved, when people give the most importance to the oil instead of the people living there.. and terrorism will unfortunately continue to exist.. at least for some more time..
Regards

Lacrima

It was a good explaination lacrima and i agree with you. I understand your point. Some leader has to be born who can oppose the wrongs in a religion.

I don't know teachings of koran, but it seems to me, either something is wrong in its teaching or in the teachers who teaches it. When I see all these things from the ground level, I find that people are tought in the wrong way or we can say that people interpret it in wrong way. And obviously, uneducated community understands it in the way it is taught. If since my birth, I would have been told that light means dark and dark means light, I would have believed it. And if after growing up, I would have asked, why is light, dark, when complete world says, light means light and not dark. And my elders and teachers would have said, world is fool. They don't know anything. they never had a holy person. Our teachings are the one that world should adopt and this is what we all should do to force world to learn what we want to teach. If you also do it then you will reach heaven and will enjoy life. So dark means light. Then I would also have followed it.

Obviously, someone needs to be born who can oppose and bring the revolution.

Discussion is long and is on a sensitive topic. So I would not say any more on this.

I must say you look at the world as a litle child.
You think they are all wrong because they were from the start teached wrong, and you are lucky to be teached right.
But it is not that easy.
True is they are not wrong at all.
Take a look at Iraq. Are they wrong?
I think not. They are just defending them self. So would you and me too.
US act as if they want to free them but don't be childish to belive it. They want to steal oil not to free people.
So where exactly are Iraqis wrong?
Because they want to be free and have there own oil?
Because they just do not get it that US wants to free them?

US wants really to free them.
From oil.

About Bush IQ, don't be funny.
- whatever it is your handle(DvD) is funny

Idiot can not get 400 mil $ for campaign.
- not he but alqaeda got that much for him

Idiot can not fool half USA.
- he did

Idiot can not earn that much money with his
oil and war industry companies.
- even a bad guy can be an idiot until someone recognizes he's an idiot

He is not stupid at all.
- yeah the americans who voted him are stupid

Maybe he just wants to look stupid.
- yes, he do look like a monkey head

I forgot to add, the sucky thing is US and its leaders are all same but Bush's victory is more delude for those who hate his policies. I hope this s**cky guy gets its right this time

"About Bush IQ, don't be funny.
- whatever it is your handle(DvD) is funny"

That happened to be my name.
I don't think I should change it, just if someone thinks it's funny.
I am not ashamed of it.

Dear GCs,

as GM said - this is a sensitive theme - and as all of us know, this discussion can lead us to something which no one of us want.

So please do not post any more messages under this topic.

I have to add, that I am really impressed by the high level of your discussion so far.

Viele Grüsse aus Berlin
Detlef

"people living in those countries are not mature enough to understand what is going on really in their country/world.."

I must say I agree with you, but it seems to me that you think you understand what is really going on.
That is nice because I do not. I can try but it relies on assumptions, so I can not realy say that I know it.
And I think you also can not know things behind the curtain.

If you realy know, answer me few question to prove it.
For example who owns World Bank and Federal Reserve System?
I was trying to find it long time, but without success.

OK I saw just now.
No more replies.

Hello Guys,

sorry to bring this issue to you. I just fead up with terrorist which use religion as background.
Did you see what happened in indonesia, when the terrorist suspect (bomb in Bali, killed 200 Australians) entered the court. They kept saying
'Allah is great'. How did they finance it? normal people does not have money. they are really cruel people.

Hallo Detlef,

I just want to add few lines without conflicting this forum or talking against any religion, but to correct GM.

Thanks for your timely interference, but GM needs to correct his approach, who started from Mr. Bush and ended up to a religion, for which he seem to have no info(which is a strange thing, as the 2nd largest muslim population lives in India).

There are conflicts in the world like in the middle east or between India and Pakistan over Kashmir where there is a state-sponsored Terrorism by these countries.

So, why dont anybody talk about resolving the main issues leading to making this world unsafe.

I would not like to answer myself, but a very famous Indian Dr. Zakir Naik has answered for such Propaganda:

Feel free to visit, as I too am really impressed by his "Research" work. So, please dont be a part of this PROPAGANDA, rather clear yourself by your own fellow countryman.

http://www.irf.net/irf/drzakirnaik/dznindex.htm

There, you can read about "ISLAM and TERRORISM" to clear your misconception.

I hope, this may also be useful for others who are under the influence of any PROPAGANDA against "ISLAM".

Rather, I was surprised to see a vast knowledge of this person about other religions as well.

So, my purpose is to share, what I thought to be something true, because we today dont find it!!!


GC

Like detlef said this topic is getting really hot from US elctions to Religion! whatever it may be most of the americans are happy with the results so lets watch the next years. May be there are peaceful solutions for all the conflicts in the world and there is a big US hand on these conflicts and hope that the new president will not attack Iran and North Korea :-(

Detlef: You are the boss, but with your permission, I just want to write a little more.
I have changed the heading from US Election:


Yes DvD, you are in a sense right. I am looking at the world as a child. I am not much into politics. and also i would not say that i know a lot. And in anyways there is no question to be lucky or unlucky. It is just a discussion. What would you say about chechanya (balsan tragedy), Israel and palestenian fight, uncountable killings in sudan. Again, I would like to say, I don't claim to know everything. Anyone, who wants to shed his opinion is welcome, but no fight please. I get scared :->

A.T:
Regarding correcting approach. There is no approach, its just thought and discussion. I agree, the direction was not in accordance to the heading. But it sometimes happens.

I am very well aware of the fact which you mentioned. I am not against anything but I support the fact which was explained by lacrima. He explained it in a very good manner.

War, terrorism are end results. But what is the basis. Where did all this started. I don't think its just oil. Obviously, much cannot and should not be discussed here, but I am interested, if somebody can clear some of my questions.

Best Wishes for all

@nreddy,

yes, I really appreciate the way you conveyed your message and seem to be understandable.

BTW, Bush or US cannot courage to touch North Korea now(after, its being declared to carry :-)

There, they talk about multi-Lateralism, but about other countries like Iraq, they had no fears to attack(Mr. Bair was threatened with 45 mins and Mr. Bush could not sleep many nights in the fear that Saddam carried WMD(for 10 years :-)).

And, I really get astonished, after knowing all the facts(& lies), still people like him. But, its Demokrate :-)

Perhaps, its Human nature to try to be called "Super".

@GM
Now, you seem to concentrate on issues. So, you talk about Chechnya with the current very sad event, which no religion allows including "Islam" and everyone would condemn it. But, there is again unjust in Chechnya. Even, EU asked a gross Q to Russia to explain, why this happened?

Who knew about Al-Qaeda before 9/11. Before, they were Mujahideens helped by US to fight against Russians. After 9/11, they are Terrorists, when they stood against the policies of US supporting Israel.

And, even US called Taliban-delegation before 9/11 to discuss their interest to allow Oil-pipeline crossing that region for their business purpose.(See Fahrenheit 9/11 for some facts).

Regarding Palestinian and Kashmir issues, where "uncountable killings" are being state-sponsored by so-called "Democratic" Govts.

Before, you talk about Sudan(which is under AU, and there are troops now being provided by AU to secure the fighting area), why not the same troops be sent to Palestine and Kashmir. There, you see Veto.

So, UN has lost its motto.

BTW, for your info, again, its not Ethnic problem, but there is "Oil" in Darfur, which is the need of US/UK Govt. to get it thru any mean.

I too dont claim to know more than you. But, I like to be honest atleast to myself and I would appreciate (like I did to nreddy), if someone just concentrate on discussion without conflicting any religion.

Again, I think, you should better know, how many people have died due to "Ethnic" violence in India(Gujrat).

Keeping in view the subject of discussion, as you told you are interested to know about more in detail.

I can again only give you the reference, where you can get better info than myself. Or when you visit India, attend his "Open-Discussion".
http://www.irf.net/irf/drzakirnaik/dznindex.htm

There, you can download (in Books section) and read about "ISLAM and TERRORISM" to clear your misconception.

Last, do you know that in US election, hundreds of millions of dollars were spent. This could be the Budget of many poor countries.

So, we should not blindly follow Politians and People who use Religion and every mean to let people fight with each other. Only innocent people die within such conflicts. Being in Europe(Germany), we(from 3rd world countries) should emphasize our Govts. to solve the problems rather than ignoring facts. Before Europe, Germany and France fought, but you dont see it now. Therefore, there is a need to change our vision with which we overlook the root cause of the conflicts(Occupation).

I am really sorry to continue Mr. Detlef "finished-topic", but I hope, this was to guide my collegue GC and especially as a good neighbour.

Schönes Wochenende!,

GC

One must deffer from religion and people when most of arabic countries left the guidance of islam they went through many problem , dont forget is that islami civilisation is the one who brought a lot of progess to the world one u say algorithem .. it is a name of an arab scientist .(search about it)
and even the number you writing down now in banc account are from arabs(muslims), ans so many science words take for example in germany they say apotheke (it is only abou tige which is an arab muslim scientist) i can give handreds of examples , so the problems that are in some islamic countries it is because of being far from islam rules which are based on democracy(we call it shourah).
and about usa vote , please try to see any american channel 99.99% of their news are on local news they know folishly nothing about the outside world , american poeple are nice and have entreprenerial spirit but they live in a big jail Called USA.

"even the number you writing down now in banc account are from arabs(muslims)"

True, but they where not invented by Arabs.
Actually Arabs copied them from Indians.
But western civilization got it from Arabians and gave them name
Arabian numbers.
They just didn't know that it originally comes from India.
http://library.thinkquest.org/22584/emh1300.htm#6

the arabic numbers are not copied from indians see the geometry of numer 1 is one angle 2 is two and ETC...
See this link : for some arabic words :
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/l/li/list_of_english_words_of_arabic_origin.html#B

it is not important whatdo they look like.
Decimal system is invention from India.
I know that numbers were made by some muslim guy:
http://www.geocities.com/rmlyra/Numbers.html

but it is not Kunst to draw new signs.
Decimal system is what is important and that is copied from India:
http://www.geocities.com/rmlyra/hindi.html

For Info(thru www.google.com :-):

http://www.harf.com/Products/eng/RWWAD.htm

@ DVD, "zero" was taken from India. Pls. read the following. (Team work)

http://www.studyislam.net/lectures/txt/Muslim_Contributions_to_Western_Civ.htm

In Research, we share, but dont "Re-invent the Wheel".

In India, the scientist, who made India Nuclear Power is also a Muslim(Mr. Azad) and now is a President. Ofcourse, this is a Team-work!!!

I provided before and now references for someone from among their locals avoiding anything personal.

Like, its the contribution of Mr. Detlef to help so many GCs solving their problems, and if some GC(after having PR :-) claims to ignore his efforts. This would be unjust like so many other things.

Anyhow, I know, this makes little different to Mr. Detlef and the same is true for those contributed before, because, their contribution was for a noble purpose.

Every GC, for me, regardless of Nationality and religion is a collegue with equal dignity and this was enough "violation" from my side to carry on with the closed topic.

Schönes Wochende!

GC