Hello there,

I come from India and have been working for about 2.5 years and last week my boss said that I should have to leave the leave the company because of 'Redundancy'. I have my current visa (where I can work any where in Germany) valid only till 1 week of July. I explained him this fact and then he said, lets keep unofficial removal till I get sorted out with my visa. At the moment he asked me not to come from next day to work and he shall pay for the end of next month and he shall give me this kundigunsletter as soon as the visa thing is sorted out.

So yesterday I went to the Auslanderbehorde to extend my visa, as I am officially still working at my company and I did'nt get any letter officially from my boss. The women there told I need to bring a Employment proof saying that I am currently working and also in the future. I explained this to my boss and he does not wants to give this 'some how fake' letter on current date and get my visa extended, cuz after I getting the visa extended, the Arbeitsamt shall soon be informed about the status and I will be in big trouble and may even damage the company's reputation. My boss wants to help me to sort out this situation wihtout having providing this EMployment proof , which according to my opinion raise doubts from Ausländerbehorde and apparantly it may cause troubles for my future stay. My ex-company's opinion is that since I have paid for the social system here, I am entitled to get the unemployment benefits and therefore I wont be bullied out of Germany as soon my current Visa expires.But from different sources I have learnt that I can enjoy these benefits only if I have a valid visa to stay here . So its a misty cloud hovering around my head. My boss wants to meet me tomorrow and see a local immigration lawyer to know about the possibilities.


At this time, I have been living here in Germany for about 7 years with 4 years of student visa and 2.5 years of Work visa.

So any ideas or any information that I have to keep in my mind to be safe, with my work rights and also my visa would really help me.

Thank you folks

Regarding Visa extenstion - it is impossible until you get emplayment proof letter from your currenty employer. Regarding-ALG, you will entitled only if you have Valid Visa. In your case as it is going to expired end of June & your company is already paying to the next month. So you willn't get any help, unless you findout any other job immediately, you have to hurry-up, else look for suitable lawyer is the Kündigung have valid reason to fire you ?

Give a try with these:
1. last 3 months of Salary slips
2. Arbeitsvertrag ( Guess you have unlimited)
3. Zeugnis from your Boss about your position, role and responsibilities

No Employer can make an Employment guarantee. It is illogical if someone asks for it.

Hi,

in my opinion if nothing is working out,as u said u have BE,u should try to find a job in some restaurant for some time,in this case u will have enough time to find a job in your field.
may be you don't like to work in a restaurant but if you want to extend your visa that is not a bad idea.
PS: this is just my opinion

I did try with my payslips and Arbeitsvetrag (Unbefristete)and but the woman there told me to bring the letter from my boss to get my extension that I am still working or shall be in the future..

But I saw in another thread, that even if I get the visa extended on Work basis...as soon as I am officially removed from the company, then I should inform the Arbeitsamt and the Visa office within 3 days and these muppets then reduce the visa to 3-6 months of Jobsearch visa ! see http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/visa_questions/searching_and_changing_job_question_about_visa

Working in restaurant does not help as this shall not add into my professional job career and the Ausländerbehorde does not give a visa for it

khan,

you worked for 2 years and you are eligible for arbeitlosengeld for atleast 6 months(not sure). You can get this letter from arbeitsamt and submit it to Ausländerbehörde. They should extend your visa untill you get arbeitlosengeld. Within this time, you need to find another job. What you have explained so far is only when you dont have BE.

USe of BE visa is, to do any job during hard time and survive.

I am sure already this kind of case was reported here and search it. Post your question in info4alien too.

Thank you Wander for your I/P,

As far as I know, my Finance boss told that I ll get about 1 year Arbeitlosengeld, but its not confirmed. But if they give this period of extension. But do you think that which kind of visa it might be... does it may be the same BE visa or 'Arbeitsuchend' visa ?

I've still the meeting tomorrow with my boss and some organization for immigration lawyers. So, any questions that I can ask them to clarify about me in this regard, just let me know so that I can put them down and ask them

Today I have received the 'Formal' Kundigungsbrief.

My Finance boss, a German who knows the law very well, said that I should take this to the Arbeitsamt and ask for Arbeitslosengeld and he called up to a Lawyer in this field and got it confirmed that since I have this BE Visa, which allows me to work any where in Germany, I am obliged to get the Arbeitslosengeld and the other benefits till 1 year. and witht this support from Arbeitsamt I can extend my visa. According to him this is the safest and the clear way !

Do you think, I should also inform the Auslänerbeofrde asap or wait till the expiry of my visa ?

Ok, congrats.

I feel like i mastered one small part of german law.

First get letter from Arbeitsamt regarding arbeitlosengeld and time period.Then you go to extend your visa.

Your visa will get extended untill arbeitsamt pays money.

Within this 1 year, you must find something permanent to extend further. It could be even any odd job that pays for your survival.

All the best.

My opinion is also you first try get abeitslosgeld and show slip to AB. Why you not question your kundigung? I think than also AB cannot say you have no job as long as you have challenge kundigung. As long as challenge they must give visa in case it is sucessful and you have still job. Why your employer tries so "nice" after giving kundigung? I understand you have only three weeks from this post http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/help_needed/ugent_job_kundigung_problem_arbeitslos/re_ugent_job_kundigung_problem_arbeitslos__7

Thank you Wander. My fear in this case is that , since i have only 1 more month of valid visa, the Arbeitsamt , does not pose any problems for giving the Arbeitlosengeld and its benefits for 12 months.

@ Pandey 99, I do not want to challenge the Kundigung as I also do not want to work in this company any more as I have realized that at my ex-company, I can't see any future and I was deciding to move out any how in 2-3 months time after my appraisal period.

One thing I also want to ask is that, right now I got my 'Betriebsbedingte Kündiguns - Arbeitverhältnis'...the letter informing me that my emplyoment stops at 30,06...My Boss asked me to sign this letter that I have 'received' it yesterday. I signed it , but at the same time I asked him if this is the same letter which describes also the financial support that I will be getting ..like the providence or in German... Abfindungsgeld, then he said.. 'no, this is just the letter that I have officially recieved the information'. So, is it going to be any other letter that my company would ask for me to sign ...considereing the financial arrangements to be done between me and my ex - company ?

Do you get Abfindung? I think it is only volontary. Check forum because I think if you go to court then you have bigger chance to get Abfindung. I found following post but not sure if your case
http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/visa_questions/gute_termine
Be sure employer not make some trick on you.

Thanks Pandey for the Info.

Well I am not sure if I am going to get any Abfindung. At the moment I have received only the Kundingungsbrief...informing me that my contract is going to end at end of June and requesting me to accept the kundigung. Well, its for me sure that I do not want to continue working at this company because of very slow personal career growth and also with salaray. So I accept it as I any how I was planning to move out in a couple of months.

My boss said I do not have to come for work from next day and I can stay back at home and start looking for the new job. At this moment i have still 32.5 Resturalub and he didnt mention any thing about any Abfindung. He said, I'll be getting paid till end of june...so does it mean that I am taking my restholidays or is it already a different form of Abfindung.

An employee has no legal claim to a severance payment as such as part of a termination by his employer. It is, indeed, voluntarily offered. When faced with the discharge of an employee who enjoys dismissal protection the employer is often faced with a dilemma. On the one hand he wants to part with his employee on the other hand, given the protection of the law, he does not know if the judge will follow his assessment of a valid termination once the employee has asked the labour court to review the termination. To avoid legal uncertainty and potentially months of back payment, the employer will more often than not agree to severance payment in exchange for the employee’s agreement to accept the termination of his job contract.

I have offered a more detailed explanation in a previous post

http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/help_needed/employment_termination_via_mutual_agreement/re_employment_termination_via_mutual_agreement__4

Thank you Vakalat for your valuable information.

Looking at the circumstances, my company has issued only Termination letter and not the Aufhebungsvertrag (compensation contract)for any issue of compensation. My company has filled in the Arbeitsbescheinigung which I need to apply for my ARbeitlosengeld and there was a section if the company is paying me any sort of Abfindungsgeld (compensation). Since they have posted this document directly to the Arbeitsamt, I do not know what they have written in there, apart from assuming that they have nothing as such planned for me or else I would have known before from them.

In the same way, I also have to fill it in the similar form as an ex-employee and I need to write in if I am getting any Abfindugsgeld from the company. Considering the momentary good cooperation between my bosses in issuing reference letter for me and also in offering support in extending my visa, I do not know if it would be effective to ask for a compensation to my company. What do you suggest ?

I am not sure, but I think it's a common practice to notify about the amount of Abfindung in the termination letter, because there's a 3 weeks term since cancellation notice to challenge the amount of Abfindung. In my opinion after 2.5 years of work on average you can reasonably expect about 3 monthly salaries as an Abfindung. Getting the reference letter from employer is your legal right, not the goodwill of your boss. The procedure of getting ALG I has been discussed in different threads here, there's nothing extraordinary in what your company's doing. The catch with Abfindung is - you can't get ALG I payed to you before you settle everything with your employer, that's why there's such an item about getting Abfindung in Arbeitsamt papers. If you go to court with the claim for Abfindung, your ALG I will be put on hold till the case is over. If you are relatively secure financially I think you don't loose much by trying to get it. Don't take my word for granted, research this topic on german forums (Arbeitslosenforum, etc.), there's a lot of useful information there.
I think the meaning of Abfindung apart from asknowledging the value of your your service to a company, is to make the jobsearch process a bit easier because legal Kündigungfrist in Germany is 1 month or 6 weeks, a relatively short notice. Probably, Abfinung does not apply to zeitlich begrenzt contracts (1, 2 years) since in this case you know, when your contract runs out and can start jobsearch in advance.

If you want you can get your visa extension by showing your bank statement (560€ month). If you want 1 year visa then 560x12€ you have to show and from there you can only withdraw a maximum of 560€ per month. This facility is avaialable in Deutsche Bank. One of my friend got his visa extension in this manner, when he don't have any work contract and searched for a job.

Good luck

@ bhas : Well this is not the case of a fixed amount that I need to show. It depends on my expenses like House rent, etc and I need to a regular basis. I was informed from my company's lawyer that as long as I get the Arbeitlosengeld I , till then I get the Visa extended. And for getting the Arbeitlosengeld I, the person should have unbefristret Arbeitlaubnis , i.e, Not fixed to the current company. I would assume that your friend's WP was limited only to his current company and he was not allowed to work any where else. In that case, he is not entitiled to get the Arbeitlosengeld or Unemployment benefits. Since , thank God, I have this Work permit, this was the solution suggested by my Finance Chef

Hello there,

Looks like the condition is gettinga bit worse. Today morning I have received an email from my Boss that he can't give me a reference letter ( even though it is ready to be sent ) til 2-3 weeks of time so that this 3 weeks of kundigungstime is over.

2 days before I have sent an email to my finance boss regarding any sort of Abfindungsgeld I shall be getting or not, then today, he replied me with a scanned copy of the offer letter for Abfindungsgeld of an amount rating to 1.5 times of my Brutto salary , if I do not put any case against it.

Now the thing is, I know that it is comparatively less , but this is stopping my Ref letter from my boss and possible support in getting my residence permit or visa extended. What I have learnt from my previous ex-colleagues, that our company has warned not to give any sort of Ref letter to the guys who go to court!

@ mkorobeinik1, you have writte in this posting that I can get to about 3 times of salaray after my 2.10 years of salaray. Do you you mean here Netto salaray or Brutto, cuz in my case they are offering 1,5 times Brutto salaray

Hello Khan ,

1) Did you sign any document with your company like resign or you accept the kundigung.If you don´t reply to them with in 3 weeks than it will taken as accepted from both side.

2) if you did´nt sign anything than it would nice to negotiate with your company using lawyer rather than going by yourself.This should be done with in 3 weeks when they send you the kundigung.

3)What do you mean by 1.5 month or 1.5 % yearly salary ? if it is yearly than it is really good.
You will pay only tax on it nothing else.

4) No one will give such reference letter and do not fell in to the trap.I think from your situation you are getting in to the trap of your company.

5) Did you inform to Arbietsamt or not ?? ask your lawyer how to proceed with it and report to arbietsamt immediately. Since they are already informed by your company that you are fired.
If you don´t do it than may be your complete visa gets canceled to 1 day or 1 week maximum.

Hope you understand consult your lawyer as soon as possible.I think he will charge some percentage of your Abfindung.

Best wishes.

For Abfindungsgeld tax percentage will be more and also may be there will be a sperrzeit in ALG.Check with experts before going for this.

I just gave you a tentative estimate, 1.5 Brutto seems to be ok, it will probably be added to your last salary and taxed alltogether as a single payment. You probably won't get much more in court but will avoid ALG I Sperre. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that getting Zeugniss is a legal right of an employee, that your company does not give it to those who go to court sounds like BS to me.
Besides, the main thing for you is to find a new job, so I say agree to Abfindung, go through ALG I application, it takes some time an efforts by itself and look for a new job offer.
Delay of 3 weeks with Zeugniss is nothing unusual I don't see an ill will of your company in that. I got Zeugnisses from both of my long time employers after the contracts were over, that's the way things work here.

@ mkorobeinik1, you are right. The letter says that the Abfindungsgeld shall be included in my last month's payment. I would accept the amount what they offer me.

I was today at the Arbeitsamt, had a termine with the Job vermittler who took down my details, created my Profile in Agentur für Arbeit and registered me as Arbeitsuchend etc. The woman also said, that I shall be eligible to get about 12 months of ALG I and this I can show to the Ausländerbehörde and get my visa extended.My ex-company lawyer also confirmed this before.

The question here comes , which kind of visa I shall be getting..shall it be an Aufenthaltserlaubnis (AE) or a Fiktionbescheinigung. The chances of getting the AE extended, I do not know as I do not have a contract for further work so they might just give me the Fiktionbescheinigung and with the Fiktionbescheinigung, I am not sure, if I get the ALG I or if I get the Fiktionebescheinigung till the time I get the ALG I, how does it differ from AE ?

At first I had Fiktionsbescheinigung since it takes time to confirm ALG I and get all the papers. Fiktionsbescheinigung is a valid visum to start getting ALG I. After that I had it changed to AE, you have to go to Ausländeramt anyway after your Fiktionbescheinigung expires, get it changed to AE and come again with extended visum to Arbeitsamt so you could continue getting payments. Unfortunately I could not find the old passport, if memory serves me right it was AE based on §81 Abs. 4

New update is that, I went to ABH, and my concerned woman confirmed me that as long as I get covered by the ALG I, I shall get my visa extend as I have this AE , which allows me to work any where in Germany.Since I worked almost 3 years, I ll get 12 months of ALG I and therefore 1 year of extension of AE. In my case I have the visa still July 1 week,thank GOd