hi!

I have joined the NE family on 03.01.2006 [new years gift :-) ]
I am currently working in Berlin and now got an offer in Luxembourg and I have some details and questions regarding this new job offer.
The new company says I can work in Luxembourg with my current NE[not realy sure] and I pay my taxes according to the governament rules in Luxembourg [whic are <<<< low ].
so the questions are ,
1) Will I have to pay taxes again in Germany?
2) Does NE means to work any where in EU?
3) If NE is only for Germany then how long will it be valid?

suggestions and queries are welcome :-)

fly

Ajay Suguru

This is an interesting question. I am not sure myself but would really like to know.

Hi Ajay,

Before you post to the forum, I advise you to read the previous postings. Your questions have been discussed before.

The new company says I can work in Luxembourg with my current NE[not realy sure]

No. If you go to Luxembourg and won't come back to Germany within 6 months, you'll immediately lose your NE. If your company is German, and if they talk to Ausländerbehörde, then you can get special permission to leave Germany longer than 6 months.

Council Directive of EU states that people having NE can work in EU, apart from England, Ireland and Denmark, if the EU members do corresponding law changes [1].

Germany hasn't done that law change yet [2].

1) Will I have to pay taxes again in Germany?

I don't think so. You have to pay the taxes where you live. This question is void according to info above.

2) Does NE means to work any where in EU?

No, it doesn't, until German parliament changes AufenthG, § 51. Article 7 [2].

3) If NE is only for Germany then how long will it be valid?

It will be valid forever, as long as you won't leave Germany longer than 6 months. Otherwise, you will immediately lose your NE according to AufenthG, § 51. Article 7. If you get German citizenship, you can go anywhere you want.

Klenze17.

[1] EU Council Directive 2003/109/EC (http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32003L0109:EN:NOT)
[2] (AufenthG, § 51. Article 7):
http://aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#51

@Ajay

You can go ahead and work in Lux without any problems. Germany has agreed in principle to directive 2003/109/EC, only the law has to yet to be passed. Before leaving Germany please consult with local ABH that you are taking up employment in another EU state, I am sure they are aware of directive 2003/109/EC.

hi,

EU directives have precedence over national law in binding states (not UK, ireland or Denmark which have special provision) . That is, they take force, even if national law still has not been updated. In particular, if there is a clearly worded part of the directive that explictly contradicts a bit of national law.

There are two relevant conditions in this directive:


Article 9
1. Long-term residents shall no longer be entitled to maintain long-term resident status in the following cases:
....

(c) in the event of absence from the territory of the Community for a period of 12 consecutive months.

and

1) In any case after six years of absence from the territory of the Member State that granted long-term resident status the person concerned shall no longer be entitled to maintain his/her long term resident status in the said Member State.

Now, the best is to discuss the directive with the ABH. And getting somekind of note added to your file to avoid trouble in the future.

regards,
-a

References:
Council Directive 2003/109/EC of 25 November 2003 concerning the status of third-country nationals who are long-term residents
http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexplus!prod!DocNumber&lg=en&type_doc=Directive&an_doc=2003&nu_doc=109

@Alvarez,

EU directives have precedence over national law in binding states (not UK, ireland or Denmark which have special provision).

There is no agreement in EU stating that all Directives take precedence over domestic laws, unless stated in the said Directive explicitly. And there is no phrase in 2003/109/EC stating that this Directive takes precedence over domestic laws.

1. Have a look at the definiton of EU Directive at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_directive ). I paste a sentence from there: A directive, by contrast, requires national implementing legislation in each member state before it comes into effect in that state. In the other words, if an EU member does not adapt its laws according to the Directive, the Directive is not effective in that EU member state.

That means, at the moment it is impossible for foreigns having NE to go to other EU countries to work, even though 2003/109/EC is effective, because Germany has not changed AufenthG article §51.7 yet.

2. If the Directives had taken precedence over domestic laws, then the 2003/109/EC would not have included phrases like:
- (2) in the first paragraph (approximation of members)
- Article 26 (Member States shall bring into force the laws). Why did they put this stuff even if Directives would have taken precedence?

Unless a EU member state changes its laws, no foreigner having NE can claim to work in other EU member countries, because Equal Pay Directive (75/117) and Equal Treatment Directive (75/207) do not point to foreigners or citizens, they just point to gender, family status etc (http://www.eoc.org.uk/Default.aspx?page=15500 ). These stuff don't have unique meaning and can be interpreted against the foreigner.

There are two relevant conditions in this directive:
Article 9...
and
1)

I think you wanted to point out Article 9.4.

There are a lot of stuff in this Directive which are more restrictive than German laws. For example, let's have a look in Article 4.3:

"3. Periods of absence from the territory of the Member State concerned shall not interrupt the period referred to in paragraph 1 and shall be taken into account for its calculation where they are shorter than six consecutive months and do not exceed in total 10 months within the period referred to in paragraph 1."

Paragraph 1 covers conditions to get NE in Germany, but even AufenthG does not have 10 months restriction in its laws. If Directives had taken precedence, I am sure a lot of people in Germany would have been against it. Included are the people waiting for NE now!

All of us want this flexibility, but at the moment Germany hasn't made its move. There is still no one who set a precedent about this issue. Until then, I am afraid no one with NE can go to other EU countries.

Klenze17

Hi Klenze17,


1) the question of EU Law vs National Law, is indeed not an easy one (there is an excellent article about the issue in the EU website http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/about/abc/abc_27.html)

In principle, members take certain obligations when they join the EU, and one of them is respect for community law, and it is from this treaties that the questions of Precedence arise.

the Wikipedia link in particular brings up the Issue of verticality, which states for example that if a Community Member fails to enact legislation, and this particular legislation affects directly and unequivocally an Individual, this can take legal action against the state. Suppose for example that a Community Member fails to enact a safety directive , and long after the deadline for implementation has passed, and due to it's non implementation a citizen of the community suffers an accident in that Member state and dies. Or for state vs state, in the case of competition what happens when only one member delays introduction of some directive that gives it an unfair competitive advantage over the others.

2) i'm not quite sure but i think the setting of a n implementation deadline is a requirement for EU directives

3) yes, the directive does make life harder if you spent more than 10 months abroad during your 60 year period, (current legislation would maybe allow 30 months in extreme cases, i would guess) however, it also makes it easier for students, and if you are outside germany travelling on behalf of your company it can be recognized as current law does, there is also some leeway for emergencies and the like.

i've seen the proposed changes to the Aufenthaltsgesetz to comply with the directive, will post the link as soon as i find it.

regards,

-a

"i've seen the proposed changes to the Aufenthaltsgesetz to comply with the directive, will post the link as soon as i find it"

Hi aalvarez,
I already did post that link a month ago under the topic which was started previously by you.
http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/faq_and_important_links/working_in_the_eu/

and the link again:
http://www.fluechtlingsinfo-berlin.de/fr/pdf/BMI_AendG_ZuwG_030106.pdf

and as a side note, this proposed change is supposed to be accepted in the German Parlement before the summer break(which means till June/July) so dont expect a rush change.. German Parlement will take his time..

There is even a rubric in Info4alien which is dedicated for the discussions of this proposed change
http://www.info4alien.de/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=aenderungen

Regards,

Lacrima

oops, sorry Lacrima, been out for a while.
-a

I just saw a new relevant article regarding this topic(in German) : FYI
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/stichwort/daueraufenthaltsrichtlinie.html

Regards,

Lacrima

Thank u for every one who had time to reply.

I have some info from the EU-Recht dept Berlin.I just put the info for people who r interested in knowing[ofcourse every thing is inherited from Article 14 & 15
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32003L0109:EN:NOT)


** so there will no updations for the current NE to work in EU.
** The only advantage having NE is that u can directly start u'r work in any EU for 3 months and at the same time u can apply for the long term work/residence permit.
** we dont lose our NE if have informed to ABH and have some thing in written.

fly

Ajay Suguru