I am waiting for "Zustimmung der Ausländerbehörde" (a.k.a. GC) in the coming days. The contract says that I have to start to work on January 2005.

1. My contract does not have a time limit, but HR says that local authorities will prepare Greencard for me. After 5 years, do I have the right to lengthen my work permit, stating that my contract does not include any time limit?

2. IT-ArGV $9 states that GC law will expire on 31.07.2008. If I start in January, will my work permit expire in July 2008?

3. I still have not understood the debates about NE rights of GCler here and http://www.info4alien.de. I think a GCler cannot take NE automatically. Is that true?

Hi

1) It is too early to think about it, you didnt even start to work with new immigration law, yes you can prolong your work-permit, when you have a job. So no problems here.

2) Ahh really ? I think, you shouldnt be concerned about this law clause. It also says in § 6 (1) that first GC work-permit can be applied till 31.12.2004, if it is 5 years then it will obviously exceed this given date in § 9.

3) Yes, it is true.

Question:

3. I still have not understood the debates about NE rights of GCler here and http://www.info4alien.de. I think a GCler cannot take NE automatically. Is that true?

lacrima's answer:
3. Yes it is true.

Related to this:

I have read the debates of DvD with other guys
on http://www.info4alien.de but there are
still confusing things.

So that GC can transition to NE, what conditions
must exist?

For example, must be there a VwV about GC -> NE?

All the GCler wants to get a NE. And therefore,
anybody must have an idea about how to do it.
Or, are the current Verordnungen insufficient,
or shall we wait for new ones?

"So that GC can transition to NE, what conditions
must exist?"

-> 60 months of pension payment.
-> 5 years in Germany
-> Having a job (or some kind of proof which will show that you can continue your life in Germany financially independently, without getting state helps)


New immigration law made only clear that GC can continue after 5 years, IF he has a job and eventually get the NE. If he does not have a job, only god knows what will happen.

imagine that you lose your job after 4 years of working and Arbeitsamt gives
you only 6 months of unemployed allowance. You will probably have to leave
Germany after 4,5 half years of residence, if you can not find a job then. That
is not fair, IMHO. but life itself also is not fair..

info4alien guys were talking about some internal regulations of new immigration law
for internal use of ABHs.. I dont know when this will be available, let's
see if this one has smt new for GCs. (as far as I understood, this internal
regulation will not be published in any internet site.. it is just for ABH guys..)

Regards

Lacrima

Hi All,
I have worked in a company as a Doctorand for 15 months with Aufenthaltsbewilligung. I contributed rente and arbeitslosversicherung. Last month I joined at a new company with a normal Arbeitserlaubnis & Aufenthaltserlaubnis. Now is my Probezeit until February 2005. Here is my question:

Will I be eligible for Arbeitslosgeld if I loose my job any time now as I worked here with Aufenthaltsbewilligung?
How much and how long can I get as arbeitslosgeld?

I thank you for your replies!

regards,

bs

lacrima, thanks for your replies.

I think, you have got those 3 conditions from
AufenthG (Aufenhaltsgesetz) $9 (NE, ie.
Niederlassungserlaubnis), http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#9.

DvD stated in http://www.info4alien.de that
a GCler cannot change a job easily without
having a NE first. Since GCler has limited
WP/RP (Work Permit - Residence Permit) and since
NE (Niederlassungserlaubnis) doesn't have
a time limit (unbefristeter Aufenhaltstitel),
both will conflict each other. What the guys
in http://www.info4alien.de are too complicated
to understand it, yes it is internal. And I read
in one of the postings that such regulations
are extremely difficult to find, because Germans
do not publish it to anywhere.

DvD states that it is impossible in current
conditions that a GC can transition to an NE,
and other say that there needs to be a VwV,
which is unclear when to exist.

And you say that $9 (NE, Niederlassungserlaubnis)
in AufenthG is sufficient to get NE.

Don't these conflict with each other?

I hope I did not misunderstand you.

Hi Klenze17

You wrote:
"DvD states that it is impossible in current
conditions that a GC can transition to an NE,
and other say that there needs to be a VwV,
which is unclear when to exist."

No, this one already exists.. we know at the moment for sure that a GC can continue to work after 5 years, IF he has a job. Here is the regulation regarding that :

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschv.html#46
§ 46 (2)

PS: There is also VwV, which will be available for ABH guys. That might make the GC situation a bit clearer.. let's wait and see..

Regards

Lacrima

Don't wait for VwV. For AuslG it came 9 years after law. For ZuwG it will probably be similar.

But situation is clear. GC can get NE same as everybody else, if he fullfils one of those 3 kriteria:
84k or leading scientist or leading manager.

and of course after 5 years here.
Meantime GC can prolong RP as much as he wants if he has a job. If not, he needs a lot of luck.

Btw after 1.1. there is practicaly no GC.
On that date is GC regelung not valid any more and GC visum is same as every other visum.
Time limit and IT condition stay valid.

DvD wrote
> Don't wait for VwV. For AuslG it came 9 years
> after law. For ZuwG it will probably be similar.

Is AufenthV,
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsv.html,
for AufenthG,
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html,
not a VwV?

> But situation is clear. GC can get NE same as
> everybody else, if he fullfils one of those 3
> kriteria: 84k or leading scientist or leading
> manager.
> and of course after 5 years here.

DvD, where are these conditions citated?
Haven't found in ArGV, IT-ArGV, AufenthG und
BeschV.

> Meantime GC can prolong RP as much as he wants
> if he has a job. If not, he needs a lot of luck.
> Btw after 1.1. there is practicaly no GC.
> On that date is GC regelung not valid any more
> and GC visum is same as every other visum.
> Time limit and IT condition stay valid.

That means, GC regelung will be equal to
the AuslG $10 (http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/auslg.html#10). I think is quite normal, i.e.
"if you don't have a job,
then why do you stay in Germany?" ;)

For the turkish GC'lers:
There is a special regulation for turkish
people working in Germany. According to
ARB 1/80 $6,
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/arb180.html,

" nach vier Jahren ordnungsgemäßer Beschäftigung
freien Zugang zu jeder von ihm gewählten
Beschäftigung im Lohn- oder Gehaltsverhältnis."

Does that mean that has to do with NE?

I am from Turkey, I am sure there are turkish
GC'lers, who might have an opinion.

Regards,
Klenze17.

Merhaba Klenze17,

Desene güzelim ben Türkiyedenim diye.
Yes, Turkish GCs get Arbeitsberechtigung(which allows them to do every job they want) after 4 years.. this Arbeitsberechtigung will lead eventually to a NE (but you still need 5 years for NE)

this has been discussed several times in Turkisch GC discussion forums. For more information, check the archives of these groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/almanya_network/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/almanyesilkarti/

Regards

Hi guys,

Talking about future could you please elaborate more in which conditions we (GCs) can change the job after 1.1.05? Do we have to undergo a new D/EU market search before they issue us a new WP?
So far I didnt get much of it and I think this is one of the points we have to focus on due to the current job market instability wich can turn to worse therefore affecting our mobility and threating our odds to remain here.

Cheers.

yes, Lacrima z.B.

they do not need to write down everything in law.
there is no GC after 1.1. so our Visum can be invalid or accepted as normal Visum(theoretically).
BeschV says it will be treated as normal Visum and everything else are consequences.

DV is legaly far from VwV, because DV is law and VwV is just manual, without legal value.
DV must be accepted in Bundesrat or Bundestag (not allways)and VwV not.

"Talking about future could you please elaborate more in which conditions we (GCs) can change the job after 1.1.05? Do we have to undergo a new D/EU market search before they issue us a new WP?"


NO
I think this link from Lacrima to BeschV§46 points exactly to the point where it is stated:

"gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort."

So if you have job you have Visum for ever, even if you change this job.
It only has to be IT.
even 51k or 40k condition falls out.
Easy?

> lacrimo wrote:
> Desene güzelim ben Türkiyedenim diye.

http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/visa_questions/gc_programm_deadline_urgent_answer_pls
kisminda turkiyeden oldugumu yazmistim ama
no problem

> Yes, Turkish GCs get Arbeitsberechtigung(which
> allows them to do every job they want) after 4
> years.. this Arbeitsberechtigung will lead
> eventually to a NE (but you still need 5 years
> for NE)

In 4 years you'll get NE but you have to wait
for 1 year more to obtain the NE, is that
what you mean??

> this has been discussed several times in
> Turkisch GC discussion forums. For more
> information, check the archives of these
> groups:
> http://groups.yaho...roup/almanya_network/

I will join it.

> http://groups.yaho...roup/almanyesilkarti/

It seems that it is moderated to turkish GC'lers
come before July 2004.

> Regards

Gorusmek uzere,
klenze17

"Do we have to undergo a new D/EU market search before they issue us a new WP?"

GCler for second job needs no market search, only for first.
But after 1.1.05 there is no GC, so GCler is same as everybody else, even better because §46.2 BeschV says that ~ he has perm. ArbErl.

Without it GCler would need 3 years of work and then he would not need market search any more:
§ 9 Beschäftigung bei Vorbeschäftigungszeiten oder längerfristigem Voraufenthalt
(1) Die Zustimmung zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung kann ohne Prüfung nach § 39 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 1 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes Ausländern erteilt werden, die eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitzen und

1. drei Jahre rechtmäßig eine versicherungspflichtige Beschäftigung im Bundesgebiet ausgeübt haben oder
2. sich seit vier Jahren im Bundesgebiet ununterbrochen erlaubt oder geduldet aufhalten; Unterbrechungszeiten werden entsprechend § 51 Abs. 1 Nr. 7 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes berücksichtigt.