Dear Friends,

Firstly I would like to thank trust7
@YO
@DvD
@matrix and all the forum members

I got BE this week after a long discussion with the ABH based on § 9 "Beschäftigung Erlaubt".

I thank you all for the info you guys gave me

itrust7

Could anyone please enlighten me what is the difference between "BE" and "unfristete arbeitserlaubnis"? Many thanks.

http://www.trust7.com/de/forums/start_up/doubts_about_unbefristets_are/re_doubts_about_unbefristets_are__8

Thanks DvD.
Does that mean that BE is not bound to any company and has no time limitation?

BE should not be bound to any sector and company,
it is of course time limited. BE is just a form of Aufenthaltserlaubnis.

Acctually BE is allways unlimited. It must be unlimited because law says so.
But AE is limited and BE is not usefull without AE.

Hi,
I also still wait answer from my Behorde about issue for my question.
I have send them my documents before 1 months and 1-2 weeks...still no answer.
I have call them last week and got answer that he was on holiday and that I put in the request (DvD letter) too much law and paragraphs and he need to think and see and again think....
And finaly he say 'OK I will answer you in time of 14 days...
Still waiting....
He obviosly do not want to giv me anyting and he delay to the maximum limit time that he can...then in midle August I have to go and submit papers for NE couse in October my 5 years aufenthalt (2+3) end.
I do not know if I have done correct couse I was ( I am ) serching BE and just 2 months more I have to go and make it clear for my NE...
This is so fair my experience. Not 'pink' as all my 5 years GC live in DE...

Hi,
You are right something fishy, as we all know in this case if the beamter does his/her job its a matter of 5 minutes for the BE :-)

matrix

Hi,

Today I receive this answer from Auslaenderbehorde Muenchen:

Sehr geehrter Herr xxx,

ich habe mir nocheinmal Ihre Akte angesehen.
Ich bedauere Ihnen mitteilen zu müssen, dass die Regelung des § 9 BeschVerfV nicht auf IT - Spezialisten anwendbar ist. Wir können Ihnen deswegen leider nicht die Auflage nach dieser Rechtsvorschrift abändern.

Ihnen wurde am 10.06.2005 die Aufenthaltserlaubnis mit der dazugehörigen Auflage umgeschrieben. Ihre Aufenthaltserlaubnis entspricht nun dem aktuellsten gesetzlichen und Stand.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Just for info, as now I know that it's not possible, at least for myself...

regards,
EE

Very funny. I was there on 10th June and the lady was nice. She did't proceed further as my papers are still in ABH stuttgart and they have to be sent to ABH munich.

I had a good feeling and thought she might give BE once my papers are with her. After seeing this i now doubt what is going to happen in my case.

since then I have been with these guys(in ABH stgt and munich) to get my papers to munich. Nothing happened, they are playing Ping-Pong.

Frustating. Will let u know what happens with my case.

vamsi.

Adna F you are not going to let it be, are you?
This b.llsh.t that they answered to you could easily happened to me also. My AA thought also that GC can not extend AE and that §9 is not usefull for GC.
But luckily my ABH new that GC can be extended, so they explained it to AA.
Just to be sure I wrote down all laws that are in game when I asked for BE.

So they are wrong in your case. § 9 goes for GC just as for anyone else and even without §9 there
is §46.2 BeschV that says that all GC have by default agreement from AA to do any IT job.

I could send you my Antrag but I think almost everybody in this forum can send you my Antrag.

Hi DVD
could you please or any one else send me this antrag at tahmasiqbal@hotmail.com

I will next week applt for an extension in my visa and atthe same time i want to ask for BE. So it would benice if i could have some printed papers in my hand.

regards
Tahmas

DvD:
"Adna F you are not going to let it be, are you?
This b.llsh.t that they answered to you could easily happened to me also. My AA thought also that GC can not extend AE and that §9 is not usefull for GC.
But luckily my ABH new that GC can be extended, so they explained it to AA.
Just to be sure I wrote down all laws that are in game when I asked for BE.

So they are wrong in your case. § 9 goes for GC just as for anyone else and even without §9 there
is §46.2 BeschV that says that all GC have by default agreement from AA to do any IT job.

I could send you my Antrag but I think almost everybody in this forum can send you my Antrag."

Thanks for support, but I'm afraid ich habe kein Lust mehr. After some rethorics from those politicians who will most probably win the next election, I think I should give up and only wait if they really give my BE and NE.
The rethoric premise is right: "We need more German babies to support our social system". I agree with it absolutely. But the next is terrible and I felt myself insulted. "We don't need much immigrants", as if I am a beggar or something. Why should you connect these two different problems only to gain some votes?
I agree completely that "Sicherheitmassnahmen gegen Hassprediger" is important and can understand why the Behorden make it now in sharply manner. But to make some populistic rethorics to point up foreigners as main problem in Germany (unemployment, extremism, criminalism) to me is too vulgar and can not be accepted in culturally democratic society.
That's it, DvD. I'm even preparing to find a new job in my home country or its neighbour.

Regards,
EE

DvD:
"Adna F you are not going to let it be, are you?
This b.llsh.t that they answered to you could easily happened to me also. My AA thought also that GC can not extend AE and that §9 is not usefull for GC.
But luckily my ABH new that GC can be extended, so they explained it to AA.
Just to be sure I wrote down all laws that are in game when I asked for BE.

So they are wrong in your case. § 9 goes for GC just as for anyone else and even without §9 there
is §46.2 BeschV that says that all GC have by default agreement from AA to do any IT job.

I could send you my Antrag but I think almost everybody in this forum can send you my Antrag."

Thanks for support, but I'm afraid ich habe kein Lust mehr. After some rethorics from those politicians who will most probably win the next election, I think I should give up and only wait if they really give my BE and NE.
The rethoric premise is right: "We need more German babies to support our social system". I agree with it absolutely. But the next is terrible and I felt myself insulted. "We don't need much immigrants", as if I am a beggar or something. Why should you connect these two different problems only to gain some votes?
I agree completely that "Sicherheitmassnahmen gegen Hassprediger" is important and can understand why the Behorden make it now in sharply manner. But to make some populistic rethorics to point up foreigners as main problem in Germany (unemployment, extremism, criminalism) to me is too vulgar and can not be accepted in culturally democratic society.
That's it, DvD. I'm even preparing to find a new job in my home country or its neighbour countries.

Regards,
EE

Adna_f,

We discussed these issues thousand times here in forum. No need to repeat ourselves again. We all came to germany with our own desire and decision. Nobody is forcing us to stay here and ask to be a "loved one" for this country.

Protect yourself as far as you can during your stay here and lets say when it is due for a quit flight, plan it accordingly under effective measures (ca, us, uk etc.)

"I agree completely that "Sicherheitmassnahmen gegen Hassprediger" is important and can understand why the Behorden make it now in sharply manner."

in most cases it is used just to have some reason to throw out some foreigners and therefore reduce an unemployment rate

"But to make some populistic rethorics to point up foreigners as main problem in Germany (unemployment, extremism, criminalism) to me is too vulgar and can not be accepted in culturally democratic society."

well such thing as "culturally democratic society" surely does not exist when there are so many unemployed, not in any country. and foreigners are not pointed out as a reason for everything because they are foreigners, not, they are pointed out because they are weakest part of the society, i mean in terms of possibilities to protect their rights. it's unfortunately the unwritten law - all problems fall on the shoulders of the people who presumably will reach the worst results when protecting themselves

i wrote here "presumably" because there are always exceptions possible, but politicians simply cannot predict and count on exceptions! if they could, the life would not be interesting as everything would be clear from the beginning. politics works with large groups of people, and takes for the measurements an ordinary member of every group

sometimes 1 person can protect themselves better than millions, but i would say it again - if those people could be predicted, the life would not be interesting at all

"Nobody is forcing us to stay here and ask to be a "loved one" for this country."

That's true, the same goes for a home country or any country. But there is a difference - if something does not suit you in the home country, you can not complain but can try to change the things there. if something does not suit you in foreign country, mostly you have to accept it or go - but again, you can always try to find a reason to claim some money because some promises were not met or some other conditions were changed in a way that harmed you

"We all came to germany with our own desire and decision. Nobody is forcing us to stay here and ask to be a "loved one" for this country."

I agree partly. But you are being a bit masochistic and throwing the whole load exclusively on our backs by not mentioning one (very important) issue here: we based our desire and decision to come here on their own saying that they need us and want us. Without it, I doubt I ever would have come here in the first place. Nobody expected to be a loved one, but we assumed that the relation with the state will be fair and square as much as possible. Nothing more, nothing less. At least on the official side, from administration - we all knew upfront that there will be individuals liking us or hating us in private (everybody has right to his/hers own opinion anyway). But it all turned upside down. Personally, I would prefer if they'd say to us openly to sod off (instead of performing this sleazy games).

The part that I agree fully with is that nobody is forcing us to stay here - that's why more and more of us are leaving this place.

"Personally, I would prefer if they'd say to us openly to sod off"

if they do that then they in fact will say that Germany is ready to pay a compensation for your losses, say in a way that it will be not possible to defend vs. your claims. 'cause you said yourself - and very correct - that you based your desire and decision to come here on their own saying that they need you and want you. such decision you made counting on a right to live and work in Germany on a long-term basis, and were ready to invest some money - because integration in society in other land always takes time and therefore money - counting that considering your right to live and work here on a long-term basis you will get those money back and earn some money extra.

as you said very correct, you would not come here if it was told you that you would be able to work here only temporary (5 years), because in such a case it would be better for you in terms of money to go to another country or start a business in your home country.

therefore you could claim without problems your losses from Germany and win, if Germany throws you out and can not present any sound reason - like participation in a terrorist cell - for such an action.

officials here understand it very well (and considering Art. 34 GG must understand it, as father state can claim its losses from officials if officials have shown an incompetence and made some big mistake). therefore they play games waiting for you to give up and go back yourself, in which case they will tell that they initially did not understand you, you overreacted, did not use your chance to explain them your opinion in a more understandable way and therefore can not claim from Germany any losses.


Conclusion: the decision what is better to make basically depend on your financial situation: that is whether you can afford to lose time and money that you invested here. if yes, you could prefer to leave and forget about your losses, but not to participate in any fight that could turn out to be very lengthy. from the people that cannot afford that, it's to expect that they will fight however long it is going to take - which of course does not mean that they will be successful. after all it can take only one mistake, and the game will be over. and the state can make such a mistake as well, if provocations are made right ;)

Dear All,

At first let me salute the people (D, Yo, DVD, Nobody, Mk, itrust7 , max, matrix, vamsi, and all members), who are sharing all their experiences and spending time for providing a lot of important information.

I have been living in Germany since Aug 2001.
First one and half year studied M.Sc,(worked 2 months full-time and 8 months 80 hours/month as student job ) then 6 months full-time work (student job with work permit) then since Sept 2003 with a green card.

All together I have already paid rente for 38 months. So inspired by Trust7 discussion I want to apply for a BE.

Could anyone please send me a formal application sample in Deutsch? I have collected one from my friend Mashud (MK) as follows:

--------------------------------------------
Dear Frau X,

I have been living in Germany for more than 4.5 years.
I have already paid more than 36 months of rente by
working here. According to the new law on work permit,
I have the right to claim a restriction-less
workpermit. The BeschVerfV §9 states :

" § 9 Beschäftigung bei Vorbeschäftigungszeiten oder
längerfristigem Voraufenthalt
(1) Die Zustimmung zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung
kann ohne Prüfung nach § 39 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 1 des
Aufenthaltsgesetzes Ausländern erteilt werden, die
eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitzen und

drei Jahre rechtmäßig eine versicherungspflichtige
Beschäftigung im Bundesgebiet ausgeübt haben oder
sich seit vier Jahren im Bundesgebiet ununterbrochen
erlaubt oder geduldet aufhalten; Unterbrechungszeiten
werden entsprechend § 51 Abs. 1 Nr. 7 des
Aufenthaltsgesetzes berücksichtigt.
(2) Auf die Beschäftigungszeit nach Absatz 1 Nr. 1
werden nicht angerechnet Zeiten

von Beschäftigungen, die vor dem Zeitpunkt liegen, an
dem der Ausländer aus dem Bundesgebiet unter Aufgabe
seines gewöhnlichen Aufenthaltes ausgereist war,
einer nach dem Aufenthaltsgesetz oder der
Beschäftigungsverordnung zeitlich begrenzten
Beschäftigung oder
einer Beschäftigung, für die der Ausländer auf Grund
dieser Verordnung, der Beschäftigungsverordnung oder
auf Grund einer zwischenstaatlichen Vereinbarung von
der Zustimmungspflicht für eine Beschäftigung befreit
war.
(3) Auf die Aufenthaltszeit nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 werden
Zeiten eines Aufenthaltes nach § 16 des
Aufenthaltsgesetzes nur zur Hälfte und nur bis zu zwei
Jahren angerechnet.

(4) Die Zustimmung wird ohne Beschränkungen nach § 13
erteilt."

According to the above law, I have the right to get a
work permit without any limitation based on the
follwoing grounds:

1. I have paid 36 months of rente. (please see my
rente receipt)
2. I have a secured life due to my permanent job in
Germany. (Please see my job contract).
3. I can live without any social help in Germany.

I hope you would be kind enough to approve me a
"Restrictionless Work Permit" to exercise my economic
activities in Germany.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

XXX

Attached:
1. Rente Slip
2. Work Contract
-----------------------------------------------
But I am not good enough to translate all in German. If anyone could send me a complete sample in German at asmfiroz@yahoo.com, please...

Thank you all.

check ur mail!

Hi fred,
It is greatly appreciated if you could send me a copy as well to rk_rajesh4@hotmail.com.

thanks

Rajesh

Can any one of you send a copy to me too.
b_janardhan at yahoo dot com

Thanks & regards
Janardhan.

Fred, thank you very much.
Rajesh, Janardhan and Mustafa, I have forwared that doc to you. Best of Luck.

hi DvD Hi Fred

any one of you could please send me a copy of this antrag till today evening...
i have a meeting with arbeitsamt..and want to present them all these rules in good and organized manner..so i beleive this letter will help me.

regards
tahmas

Does this mean that with the following ie
1. Highly qualified IT & Comm ...professional
2. Little bit of Mercy from God

Its possible to get BE

@ASM thanks for the doc

HI Friends,

I just visited the ABH for my son's visa and casually asked for EG and the lady new it and said she can give it and did not ask any documents for that.

But after stamping it she told me that, Oh I cannot give you the complete EG but limited to IT field, I did not argue any thing as I did not want it any way.

So the text in my visa is as below,

"Erwerbstaetigkeit als IT-software-Berater gem.$ 46 Nr. 2 BeschV."

Any comments are welcome

regards
Janardhan.

Hi Rajesh, Janardhan and Mustafa,ASM

Could you please forward that doc to my mail id.
srinukasam AT yahoo DOT co DOT in

thank you
sinu

get the document yourself from

http://trust7faq.wik.is/Visa

It is at the bottom of the page with name "ABHantragDvD.rtf"


Rules have changed, so search for the new rules and change the letter accordingly

Hello Raj,

Thank you for your reply.
i found that doc named ABHantragDvD.rtf

i think its very useful if somebody updates this doc (with new rules). Like those who have experience or those who attended for visa(BE/EG) in last few months back.

or if somebody is having this letter pls forward me to srinukasam AT yahoo DOT co DOT in. than i will update in trust7.

Thank you
sinu