http://www1.bundesrat.de/Site/Inhalt/DE/6_20Drucksachen/6.3_20805._20Sitzung_2005.11.04/6.3.1_20Tagesordnung/HI/TO_20805._20SI,property=Dokument.pdf

Tagesordnung
der
805. Sitzung des Bundesrates
am Freitag, dem 5. November 2004, 9.30 Uhr

38. Verordnung über die Zulassung von neueinreisenden Ausländern zur
Ausübung einer Beschäftigung (Beschäftigungsverordnung - BeschV)
gemäß Artikel 80 Abs. 2 GG
Drucksache 727/04
Drucksache 727/1/04
- AS - A - G -
- In - K - Wi -
- Wo -
40. Verordnung zur Durchführung des Zuwanderungsgesetzes
gemäß Artikel 80 Abs. 2 GG
Drucksache 731/04
- In - AS - Fz -
- K -

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/zuwg/0598.html

...if it helps any, but sounds too good to be accepted, methinks.

what are the new points in this?
Thanks

"...if it helps any, but sounds too good to be accepted, methinks."

I don't know how could they reach point 38 when Sitzung started at 9.30 but in your link they say that it is allready accepted.

Funny, they say also that it needs no acceptance:
"Die Verordnung bedarf nicht der Zustimmung des Bundesrates und soll zum 1. Januar 2005 gemeinsam mit dem neuen Zuwanderungsrecht in Kraft treten."



AAAAAAAAA
Now I got it.
It was accepted by Bundeskabinett not by Bundesrat.
Bundeskabinett had allready his Sitzung.

So guys it is through.
From 1.1.05 GreenCard is considered as a permanent agreement to get residance.

But not as a agreement to get permanent residance. For that we have to fullfil one of usual conditions:
1. 84000€ or
2. important manager position or
3. important scientist position or
4. 5 YEARS IN DEUTCHLAND and 60 RENTEN

I don't get it..what's so interesting about that? Where does it say that the green-card holders get permanent residence permit?

Hi,

it is pretty much true that GC's will get PR. this links below says http://www1.bundesrat.de/Site/Inh...TO_20805._20SI,property=Dokument.pdf
that if you have legally resided in germany for 4 years and if you have 3 years of pensions paid, you are now equal to the Fellow Citizen and any EU citizen. It means, if you have a job and if you go to the arbeitsamt after 5 years, they have to give you teh Work permit without checking for any local dude for the same job. You shall be obliged to give the WP..Then the next step is very simple, you take it to teh Auslandsamt and get your PR..

It is really a great news for us today!!

Best Regards

We do not get PR with this. But we get right to extend our RP for ever. Meaning after 5 years we get PR according to law.

§ 46
Übergangsregelungen
(1) Die einem Ausländer vor dem 1. Januar 2005 gegebene Zusicherung der Erteilung einer Arbeitsgenehmigung
gilt als Zustimmung zur Erteilung eines Aufenthaltstitels fort.
(2) Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach § 6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für
hoch qualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie erteilte befristete
Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer
Beschäftigung fort.

Zu § 46 - Übergangsregelungen
Zu Absatz 1:
Die Vorschrift regelt die Weitergeltung von Zusicherungen der Erteilung einer Arbeitsgenehmigung,
die noch auf der Grundlage des geltenden Arbeitsgenehmigungsrechts, wie z. B. den
ausländischen IT-Fachkräften nach § 7 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für hoch
qualifizierte ausländische Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie (ITArGV)
oder den Saisonkräften, für eine erst im Jahr 2005 beginnende Beschäftigung gegeben
worden sind. Die Vorschrift ist notwendig, weil § 103 AufenthG nur für erteilte Arbeitserlaubnisse
eine Fortgeltung als Zustimmung vorsieht.
Zu Absatz 2:
Für IT-Fachkräfte wird mit der Übergangsbestimmung die zeitliche Befristung der erteilten Arbeitserlaubnis
aufgehoben und - wie für andere qualifizierte Beschäftigungen auch - die dauernde
Zulassung zum Arbeitsmarkt durch Fortgeltung der Arbeitserlaubnis als unbefristete Zustimmung
zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung eröffnet.

I am sorry, this is the right link
http://www.bmwi.de/Navigation/arbeit,did=45602.html

Regards

I can't believe this..tell me it's true and we can extend our work permit without any problems...is this SURE? or when will be sure..the problem is that I am a few days close to getting a work permit in Austria...but if what you say is true than I won't go anymore...but for me is a metter of days at most so I goto be sure...

@DVD,
Thanks for sharing info over such Thema, which is useful for every GC.

But, could it be possible for you to provide the link at the end(if hopefully in favor decided) helping as a document for those Amts, where a proof is required while convincing :-)

I used Russian-Guys-provided link within this forum in 2002 about Arbeitlosengeld while claiming that and it worked.


Thanks,

GC

Hi,

Just follow this link.. It says clearly that it will come in to action from the 1st of jan 2005. It also says the preliminary examanition will be avioded to integrate the foreigners living in germany.

Preliminary examination = check for any german or any Eu citizen for this job..

This website is an official one and also it come from the press section..so i think it is legitimate source

Best Regards

Yes Vchira, is true

I can tell you. Something is changing. In our city I received verbally the promise to extend my GC three years two weeks ago. Just two weeks before that date, they told me clearly they will give me one year of GC only if I carried a letter of my boss in addition to all the sh.. they usually ask for (3 last pay slips, Arbeitsvertrag, Mietvertrag...)

I do write an email to your personal address, please read.

Bye

YO

pls use vchira@gmx.de... we should also meet and discuss about this..you seem to be better inform...

Dear GreenCarders,
I would be grateful if you can answer my question, I am a little confused of all what I read.
I am holding the GC since 3.5 years, my work contract and my arbeitserlaubnis expire after 1.5 years (all by all will be 5 years). Is there a solution that i get PR even if my contract is not extended? The problem is that I work in some governmental research center and they only give contract for 5 years whoever you are (except the bosses of course). So can I on 1.1.2005 apply for a permanant arbeiterlaubnis or permanant residency without having an unlimited contract???
Thanks for your help guys.
Zash

Please, keep quiet; there are 2 BeschV – Inland (zugestimmt 3.11.04 ohne Bundesrat) and Ausland (drucksache 727/04 now in Bundesrat).
For GC is BeschV-Ausland 46.2.

Hey Zash you lucky m....

If you work in a research facility, after 1.1.05 you get your permanent residency. You will fall in the category or "Hochqualifizierte"

Just look for the link of lawyer service of Trust7 and ask them!

Regards

YO

Hi YO
man I dont think I will get my PR directly after 1.1.2005, even if I work in a research institute. I read the law and it was no where stated like this?? I get less than 84000, maybe the half only.
Any ideas how can I get more info on this? Can Mr Detlef maybe comment on this and give me an email address for further help?
Thanks

Zash, better check.

84 K is only one of the "Hochqualifizierte" parameters. The newest one was a reformulation of the corresponding article of BeschV (this is the so called "727/1/04". This add in the definition the word "Entwicklung" to all the categories of high qualified people.

So, better consult.

YO

Zash you are wrong.
Wrong is to say that after 5 years they can give you PR.
That is not true.
After 5 years they MUST give you PR.
Meaning they must give it to you if you ask it.
You have lawfull right to get it.
So no reason to worry.

YO and DvD, thanks guys for the info.
My only worry is that my work contract will finish after 1.5 years, and so after 1.5 years from now I have no job. This is my only worry, coz if I had an unlimited contract, I would not have worried, but I hope they do not make problems for me because of my limited contract.. What do u think guys?
Regards

Law does not says that one as to have job for NE.
You have to have Unterhalt, meaning some source of money.
In worst case if you have Arbeitslosgeld it is also Unterhalt, and you should even than get NE, according to law.

But since you are scientist you could get NE after 1.1.05.
That with 84000 is not condition. That is just one of 3 options to get NE at once.

Hey Zash

I think only God knows about your contract. If they want to bother you, they will do that.

I have unlimited contract and do you think this helped me? Wrong. This have never helped me.

Lets see, but after today I think a good idea for you is simply go and ask them

Regards

YO

nemo:
"Please, keep quiet; there are 2 BeschV – Inland (zugestimmt 3.11.04 ohne Bundesrat) and Ausland (drucksache 727/04 now in Bundesrat).
For GC is BeschV-Ausland 46.2."

That could be true. So we should wait few hours.

Hey GC

Not for today, maybe for tomorrow, let´s check this

http://www1.bundesrat.de/coremedia/generator/Inhalt/Drucksachen/2004/0727_2D04B,property=Dokument.pdf

And this

http://www1.bundesrat.de/coremedia/generator/Inhalt/Drucksachen/2004/0731_2D04B,property=Dokument.pdf

This are the pages the document generator has assigned for the conclusions of the ordinances about BeschV and VwV of immigration law. Of course, they are not active today, but surely tomorrow will contain both manuscripts.

Regards

YO

Hi all ,
The news are encouraging and gives more hope especially for those GCs and their fammilies who are about to finish their permits soon like me .
But I have a very practical question which may benifet me and other First comming GCs who are soon finishing their permits next year ( August or September next year ) . Especially that my arbeitserlaubness finishes also in September .
1) Can I go next year , lets say in March and apply for unlimmited PR in AB and telling them that I need to plan my future ( including childrens future ?????
2) Do I have to go to Arbeitsamt to change my work permit to unlimmited .
2) Does anybody know What are the needed documnets for application of PR .

Thanks in advance

Hi old_man, LOL

I'm not laughing of your grey hairs, no, respect to all the elders down here, but it's just your questions that make me smile, most the first:

"1. Can I go next year , lets say in March and apply for unlimmited PR in AB and telling them that I need to plan my future ( including childrens future ?????", man, even a terrorist or a drug dealer has to plan his future (though a bit shorter for the terrorist) and this will never be a good argument to ask for a PR, if that was the case, I would have already asked for one (my visa ends on August 31st, so I'm one of the people you are referring to)

"2. Do I have to go to Arbeitsamt to change my work permit to unlimmited!, not until you got the PR.

"3. Does anybody know What are the needed documnets for application of PR", nope, but I will soon know, be sure of :-)

D.

Thanks NoBody for the humor :-). Maybe I could not elaborate my self enough .
On general , What can be done from our sides when the law comes effective from 2005 . What does these changes to me and to you ?
Shall we wait untill August/September ?
My German is weak ( still learning ) , and this is the reason why I am asking these questions . No need to laugh at me :-( .
cheers

"On general , What can be done from our sides when the law comes effective from 2005", see how it goes and read most of the papers which will determine how things should have to be done. They are not yet known, but at that time, they will.

"What does these changes to me and to you ?", at the near present, nothing really, I need to get rid of some ClassCastException in my code and the law can change nothing about that. But in another view, I got myself more assured for my future here, couldn't think about having to relocate again and start another life somewhere.

"Shall we wait untill August/September ?", nope, sonst you got kicked out, you have to apply 2 or 3 months before the end of your visa. How? give it up to our friend Detlef and our soon-to-be-chassed-after lawyers :-) Please read the new T7 services under the Visa section.

D.

Nobody , your answers are in the right direction :-) thanks .

Detlef , what is your opinion ?
What could be the costs of such legal help ? and do you have angebots :-)

Hi all
my question is is it there any chance to get the Niderlassungerlaubnis for those who have green card since 1 year but live here in germany since more then 8 years out of which most of the time on student residence permit. i worked during my studies also and paid the rente beiträge. is it there any chance that they can count the years in which i worked as student.

Khan

Hi Old Man,

here you can find more info:
http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/visa_questions/new_visa_service

and the English text of our new service...
http://www.trust7.com/en/visa

will come on Wednesday.

By the way, I remember your last message, some weeks ago. I hope, that everything is fine now!

Have a nice weekend, all of you :-)
und viele Grüße aus Berlin
Detlef

If I have correctly understood Beschäftigungsverordnung - BeschV didn't pass yesterday. See bellow...

Der Bundesrat hatte in seiner 805. Sitzung unter anderem über die

* Verordnung über die Zulassung von neueinreisenden Ausländern zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung - Beschäftigungsverordnung (TOP 38) und
* die Verordnung zur Durchführung des Zuwanderungsgesetzes (TOP 40) zu entscheiden.

Während die Länderkammer der Beschäftigungsverordnung nur unter Änderungen zustimmte, passierte die Durchführungsverordnung ohne Änderungen das Gremium.

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/zuwg/0599.html

No, it passed!

http://www1.bundesrat.de/Site/Inhalt/Drucksachen/2004/0727-04B,property=Dokument.pdf

Der Bundesrat hat in seiner 805. Sitzung am 5. November 2004 beschlossen, der
Verordnung gemäß Artikel 80 Abs. 2 des Grundgesetzes nach Maßgabe der sich aus
der Anlage ergebenden Änderungen zuzustimmen.


Diese Veränderungen sind für GC nicht sehr wichtig!
Grüß! :-)

Hi grebov,

you got it wrong. They just said that they had made some corrections, but everything passed. It is fine.

Now we have the situation, that almost everything is possible. For GCs who are employed, there is no problem at all. For newcomers it will be easier (for example: there is no minimal salary any more). The prerequiste is a job and then it is a matter of clever application at the local authorities.

Nobody needs a lawyer for this, but if the employee or the employer do something wrong or they act not clever, it is possible that the visa will be denied.

Therefore we now offer our new visa service. Our lawyers are specialized, they know the complecated and numerous paragraphs and they know how to deal with the officials at the 'Ausländerbehörde'. Nobody will have disadvantages because of language problems or the possible bad mood of a 'Beamter'.

In most of the cases the employers will pay for it.

Viele Grüße
Detlef

Thanks for the clarification!

Hey DvD, what's happening, it seems you can't get this smile out of your face, can you? :-)

D.